Dogwood Project

[j evans]

I have this dogwood tree that is approximately 6' tall that I have to move. In looking at the trunk it looks like it has some possibilities for a project. The trunk is about 2 - 2 1/2" across and has some roughness that appeals to me. I know that dogwoods are not the best subject material but I have this and I need to remove it so I am thinking why not? I am soliciting opinions and guidance on the tree. My first opinion to to maybe remove both large side branches and try to use the center branch to get a new leader. I think that if that was to be done it would already have a nice taper. Thoughts?

Thanks for the help.

Jamie

 

[Underdog]

Looks nice and fun to me. I have no good advice yet but my eye on a wild dogwood to air layer this spring.
Good luck!

 

[sorce]

I think everything workable will sprout out of that 3rd pic view.

I would cut it down to the middle branch too. But only cuz it seems enough to sustain it for a move.

Nice.

Sorce

 

[j evans]

About a year ago I posted this. I didn't dig it yet. Any other comments as to if it is good enough to put work into?

 

[0soyoung]

About a year ago I posted this. I didn't dig it yet. Any other comments as to if it is good enough to put work into?

You know, I think bonsai is like any other hobby - a waste of time and money. But it is the way I like to waste time and money - I enjoy it.

I enjoy trying to make lemonade from lemons. I enjoy trying to make something of the endless parade of volunteers I find - Douglas firs, hemlocks, arborvitae, Norway maples, red maples, mountain ash, horse chestnuts, hawthorns, paper birch. I've even gone so far as to try growing some from seed (acer shirasawanum, stewartia, and madrone). And, I am an air layering fool to boot. I've discarded some after a while, I've killed a fair number, and I've still got many. Lots of unexpected things have happened that led me off on a very interesting tangent studying tree physiology. I still don't understand why some trees/shrubs, grown from seed in small containers have smaller leaves and internodes than the same species has when reduced from a mature specimen - I'd like to know, but for now I've added growing from seed in small containers (super-mini) to the repertoire of how I waste time.

I've struggled with the art of bonsai styling for the last few seasons. It is very frustrating because I'm not good at it. But I keep thinking about it, looking at great bonsai, trying to understand what makes them great (in my opinion). I keep trying to make my trees pleasing to me. My trees are getting to be less of an embarrassment (a few are actually getting to be pretty good, I think), but what a waste. My wiring skills are not good - all the money I've waste on wire and pots.

But it is how I want to waste my time. It is what I enjoy doing.

A dogwood? Really?

It is just a waste of time.

 

[sorce]

Well said @0soyoung
Very well said!

Waste your time!

Sorce

 

[j evans]

Hate to be dense, but is that yes waste your time or no it is a waste of time?

 

[Vin]

Hate to be dense, but is that yes waste your time or no it is a waste of time?

It means go ahead and waste your time if you will enjoy the ride. Try to make lemonade out of a lemon (a decent bonsai out of the tree in question). If not, waste your time (enjoy the hobby) with some other volunteer.

 

[j evans]

That's what I first thought but then I read it a second time and third time and wasn't too sure. Guess it was spoken in Bonsaiese to a level that I haven't yet achieved. Thanks for the interpretation.

 

[Steve Kudela]

About a year ago I posted this. I didn't dig it yet. Any other comments as to if it is good enough to put work into?

Hey J, In my opinion, it's worth it, Take off that left side leader, take off that center branch. Go about 2 or 3 inches up that right side leader, cut it off and wait for some resprouting to occur. Let it grow for the entire next season and make your tree from the results...................SK

 

[Steve Kudela]

Hey J, In my opinion, it's worth it, Take off that left side leader, take off that center branch. Go about 2 or 3 inches up that right side leader, cut it off and wait for some resprouting to occur. Let it grow for the entire next season and make your tree from the results...................SK

I am looking at that last pic. I forgot to mention that earlier.

 

[sorce]

+bark
+evidence of low nodes
+little or no suckers
+flare that could be even better lower
- that won't have bark

+fem curves fem flowers
-+ its treensgender bark
+pleasing taper

+I've had one survive Indoors hahaha back in the day! For a while. With mites!
Pretty tough!

-hollow branch cores....

Are you sure it's a dogwood?
As in....
Corn Us?

Sorce

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Dogwood are rarely used for bonsai. The few Cornus florida, flowering dogwoods I've seen were slender, artistic, deciduous, literati styles shown with flowers. No big trunks, no fine branching. Reason is most dogwoods will send up suckers from the roots. Their leaves don't reduce much. Branches are somewhat coarse. Over all, not easy to create a passable bonsai. But not impossible. It could be done.

Were I to tackle your dogwood, I'd chop it low, chop it off flat below the branches. Let it grow in the ground one or two years. You will need long escape branches to create taper, you could train it in the ground the first 5 years or so to get fastest possible growth to create believable taper from trunk to branches. Select your preferred branches, let them grow out to 25% of trunk diameter for a branch, 50% for a continuation of the trunk line. Then cut back to a few inches. This means letting branches run 6 feet or more, then cut to just a little stub, an inch or two long. Then repeat, usually 3 cycles of this are needed. You can see it will take time. at the same time, you have to trim off root suckers as they emerge to keep trunk. If you put it in a pot, even a big pot will slow the process.

So that is why some wonder if it's a waste of time.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

If it works, it could be spectacular, but success would be at least a decade away.

 

[Steve Kudela]

Dogwood are rarely used for bonsai. The few Cornus florida, flowering dogwoods I've seen were slender, artistic, deciduous, literati styles shown with flowers. No big trunks, no fine branching. Reason is most dogwoods will send up suckers from the roots. Their leaves don't reduce much. Branches are somewhat coarse. Over all, not easy to create a passable bonsai. But not impossible. It could be done.

Were I to tackle your dogwood, I'd chop it low, chop it off flat below the branches. Let it grow in the ground one or two years. You will need long escape branches to create taper, you could train it in the ground the first 5 years or so to get fastest possible growth to create believable taper from trunk to branches. Select your preferred branches, let them grow out to 25% of trunk diameter for a branch, 50% for a continuation of the trunk line. Then cut back to a few inches. This means letting branches run 6 feet or more, then cut to just a little stub, an inch or two long. Then repeat, usually 3 cycles of this are needed. You can see it will take time. at the same time, you have to trim off root suckers as they emerge to keep trunk. If you put it in a pot, even a big pot will slow the process.

So that is why some wonder if it's a waste of time.

Hey Leo, I've been thinking...............maybe that explains my headache...........................let me if you will, pick your brain a little bit. In the south dogwood is an understory tree as you already know. Because of that, they don't like to have sun on their trunks. Down here, if planted in the sun, they have a peculiar habit of sprouting up and down the trunk to shade itself. So, and I'm looking at the last pic. about 3, maybe 4 inches up that right hand leader is a node with a shoot coming out the back, a bud on the side. My thought is, if it is cut back to that point, it would leave a natural leader that would be drawing sap. Would that stop it from dying back and sprouting from the roots? And then , would placing it in full sun help it to sprout up and down the remaining trunk because of the above mentioned trait? I'm really curious. I've only seen one dogwood as bonsai, don't have one myself, never found one that was collectable. the one that I have seen belonged to David Cook from Atlanta, it was a good one. It was in an old International Bonsai magazine from years ago. Maybe Bill V. would remember it. Thanks for your time................SK

 

[Steve Kudela]

Hey Leo, I've been thinking...............maybe that explains my headache...........................let me if you will, pick your brain a little bit. In the south dogwood is an understory tree as you already know. Because of that, they don't like to have sun on their trunks. Down here, if planted in the sun, they have a peculiar habit of sprouting up and down the trunk to shade itself. So, and I'm looking at the last pic. about 3, maybe 4 inches up that right hand leader is a node with a shoot coming out the back, a bud on the side. My thought is, if it is cut back to that point, it would leave a natural leader that would be drawing sap. Would that stop it from dying back and sprouting from the roots? And then , would placing it in full sun help it to sprout up and down the remaining trunk because of the above mentioned trait? I'm really curious. I've only seen one dogwood as bonsai, don't have one myself, never found one that was collectable. the one that I have seen belonged to David Cook from Atlanta, it was a good one. It was in an old International Bonsai magazine from years ago. Maybe Bill V. would remember it. Thanks for your time................SK

Bump for @Leo in N E Illinois , I'm curious Leo

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Sorry, I am erratic on which forum I check, usually I do BNut from on the road.

Yes, I think you have a good idea there. Cut above the shoot. It will definitely help prevent trunk die back. Then after you dig, putting it in sun may help. Caution, after digging, give it protection, shade, until you see signs roots are able to keep up with foliage's water demand. Then give sun until you have the back budding you need. My brief visits to GA told me your sun can be brutally hot, maybe not as relentless as in Texas, but hotter than my experiences here, up north.

 

[j evans]

When would be the best time to collect and chop this tree, or should I chop it and leave it growing in the ground for now?

 

[Steve Kudela]

When would be the best time to collect and chop this tree, or should I chop it and leave it growing in the ground for now?

Hey J, check the above thoughts. If it were me, I would take it up now............SK

 

[just.wing.it]

I would dig and chop.
And BTW, kudos for working with a dogwood. They're really nice trees. I always keep my eyes peeled for them.