Don’t buy

[WesB]

Don’t buy this for soil. Not even 5 minutes sitting in tap water I was able to make clay balls in my fingers with it. $20 down the drain

 

[vaibatron]

WesB,

I mean this in the most sincere way possible. Do a little research on the forums here before springing to buy. It will save you some cheddar and a headache. Go to Napa auto parts and get their brand.

On the bright side, you have the makings for a super killer project volcano!

 

[WesB]

WesB,

I mean this in the most sincere way possible. Do a little research on the forums here before springing to buy. It will save you some cheddar and a headache. Go to Napa auto parts and get their brand.


On the bright side, you have the makings for a super killer project volcano!

The product is directly from the list of recommended soils thread on site.. .

 

[WesB]

I was hopeful to actually find a go to product locally and then when I felt the lightness of the bag I was delighted. Seeing it fail so easily was a bummer. O well, I have a shipment of trees coming tomorrow so an emergency trip after work for perelite is in order. Anywhoo, scratch this one off the list. Tested and failed.

 

[Silentrunning]

I have found the following to be an adequate emergency bonsai soil mix:
2 parts NAPA #8822
1 part perlite
1 part crushed charcoal (not briquettes)
1 part crushed lava rock

I used this on a couple of trees I was given last year and they are full of fat buds right now. If your trees are coming tomorrow I would call that an emergency.

 

[TN_Jim]

Beware of napa 8822. I have found it to be an amazing product, but some of it after less than a year is paste with any pressure. I’ve repotted a couple that could have waited due to this, but from other bags, it’s still literally rock solid.

Check out the last page of Sorce’s juggernaut of an 8822 thread. @James W. and others...interesting stuff

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/napa-oil-dry-part-no-8822.20908/

 

[Potawatomi13]

Don’t buy this for soil. Not even 5 minutes sitting in tap water I was able to make clay balls in my fingers with it. $20 down the drain

Please add location to profile. Can return oil dry for refund?

 

[wsteinhoff]

I've used optisorb. It has been just fine and the same thing as "Napa 8822". It's been through a full growing season and the frequent freezing and thawing of this winter with no I'll effects or breaking down. I've recycled 8822 for a couple of years and it's fine as well.

 

[James W.]

The product is variable. Optisorb and NAPA 8822 are both calcined DE produced by EP Minerals. EP Minerals has 2 sources for their DE, one is harder and more durable. The harder one is identifiable by a slight pinkish color when dry and rainbow of browns when wet. The soft variety is gray when dry or wet. Nothing on the packaging will indicate the source, you have to open it and check. The two products are supposed to be equally effective as absorbents so I am assuming they will work as well in soil, the only issue being durability. Which I agree is a significant issue.

 

[Gary McCarthy]

Optisorb and NAPA 8822 are both calcined DE produced by EP Minerals

Are you 100% sure about that? I think it's been reported here elsewhere that Napa 8822 is calcined but Optisorb is not.

 

[WesB]

Haha lol, not really looking for any advice here, just a friendly warning that this stuff isn’t on the up and up. Good grief.

 

[WesB]

The product is variable. Optisorb and NAPA 8822 are both calcined DE produced by EP Minerals. EP Minerals has 2 sources for their DE, one is harder and more durable. The harder one is identifiable by a slight pinkish color when dry and rainbow of browns when wet. The soft variety is gray when dry or wet. Nothing on the packaging will indicate the source, you have to open it and check. The two products are supposed to be equally effective as absorbents so I am assuming they will work as well in soil, the only issue being durability. Which I agree is a significant issue.

That is interesting, it is a white grey color dry and a spectrum of browns when wet. Im guessing regional sources probably has something to do with it.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

As people have pointed out, these products are not always the same from market to market. They certainly don't ship optisorb from one source all over the country. Be really cautious about using any "oil cleanup" product because you never really know what you're getting until you have opened a bag and checked it out.

 

[James W.]

Are you 100% sure about that? I think it's been reported here elsewhere that Napa 8822 is calcined but Optisorb is not.

Not %100.
The Optisorb I have used is near enough to identical to the grey NAPA 8822 I have purchased.

 

[James W.]

That is interesting, it is a white grey color dry and a spectrum of browns when wet. Im guessing regional sources probably has something to do with it.

EP Minerals has 2 sources (mines) for DE in the USA.

 

[WesB]

I wonder how much the stuff needs to be baked before it’s usable. I feel an experiment coming on ?‍?

 

[TN_Jim]

I wonder how much the stuff needs to be baked before it’s usable. I feel an experiment coming on ?‍?

I believe its ~1000C / ~1500F for around 15-20 min

 

[Gary McCarthy]

Not %100.
The Optisorb I have used is near enough to identical to the grey NAPA 8822 I have purchased.

I went back and checked some previous posts about NAPA and Optisorb. While the Optisorb is a better particle size product than the NAPA 8822 it is not a calcined product.

 

[sikadelic]

Hey man..I was that guy who could find nothing locally myself either. I know how that feels. It seems like many of the products we all like are super similar but go by so many different proprietary names that they are hard to find while being right under your nose.

Case in point...I had been trying to find local pumice or lava and was having terrible luck. I went to a nursery a couple of hours from home and found some expanded slate marketed under a brand name that I can't recall right off hand. I bought it, brought it home, and took a sample to my local farm store. I used to play in a band with the owner so I know him pretty well and he had some time to talk. I showed him what I had been scouring the earth for (or anything similar that we could use) and he said "Oh hell man I will have that for you in a couple days". Long story short, he found it listed under "Permatill" and now I have a quick and easy source for that, turface, and he is trying to locate some pumice for me.

I would recommend buying what you like, even if its the smallest bag you can find, and then take it around to some gardening centers, farm stores, etc. and show it to them. They may not know bonsai, but they know their products and can usually find something close enough that you can try/research for your own blend.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck!!

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

Don’t buy this for soil. Not even 5 minutes sitting in tap water I was able to make clay balls in my fingers with it. $20 down the drain

I use safe t sorb, it's about $8 a 40 lb bag and i mix with pine bark and perlite. Nigel Saunders on YouTube has been using it for years in his trees, I've been using it a year and everything's been growing fine. Just make sure to sift the fines out and do the sitfting outside. Pine bark is like $3.50 a huge bag and perlite is pretty cheap if u don't mind sifting and breaking pine chips up by hand it's a great idea