Douglas fir survivor

[wireme]

There is a story behind the name. I collected this about three years ago. Was digging a juniper close to it that didn't have quite the rootpad at the base that I anticipated. I had to follow some roots out and they ran right under this tree. It was an awkward spot too, gripping with toenails on a steep mossy slab. Anyway both trees came out but this one had no fine roots whatsoever. Just three coarse taproot like roots heavily barked up. I was not too impressed with myself at the time, it was even past the time I would dig a dougy. The new growth was already fully flushed but fresh and it seemed to have no chance at all to survive. I came very close to just chucking it over the bank by the truck. Couldn't do that though had to at least try. Back home I dropped it into the nursery can and not wanting to waste sifted substrate I just dumped in a bunch of small pea gravel I had laying around for a concrete project.
The flushed out growth went droopy for a couple weeks then perked up and the tree has since recovered better than most of the Douglas fir I have collected. Strange but I guess these things just happen sometimes.

I've been studying it, doesn't look like much right now but I'm pretty sure I see an alright tree design in there. I'll probably try to style it a bit later this summer, so here's the before shot.

 

[wireme]

Whipped up a two minute erasing and tilting virtual preview, chuck some wire on that and there should be something there I figure.

 

[wireme]

This is the juniper that didn't want to come along alone. Looking happy these days too.

 

[Arcto]

Nice save.

 

[Wilson]

These are the reminders that trees are real survivors. Sometimes in our efforts to not stress our trees, we forget all the hardships they endure in nature. Both trees I am sure will turn out great, in a few years. That juniper has got some wicked dead wood!

 

[PiñonJ]

That's an amazing survival story. I collected one a couple years ago growing in a similar situation, except buds were just opening. The buds opened, then it slowly died.

 

[wireme]

These are the reminders that trees are real survivors. Sometimes in our efforts to not stress our trees, we forget all the hardships they endure in nature. Both trees I am sure will turn out great, in a few years. That juniper has got some wicked dead wood!

They can be real survivors. Sometimes I see trees around town in people's exterior planter boxes or flower beds that are super stressed and unhealthy. A little doug fir in a flower bed at a place I go sometimes springs to mind. The owners are kind of bonsaiing it. It gets pruned to almost nothing every spring. It's always in soggy wet heavy soil, covered with adelgids and is really pale yellow and weak. It's been that way for the last 15years and just keeps on not dying!

 

[wireme]

That's an amazing survival story. I collected one a couple years ago growing in a similar situation, except buds were just opening. The buds opened, then it slowly died.

I'm very curious to see where it has managed to generate new roots. If it's only out of the cut ends it might prove to be awkward to pot. I'll probably leave it in this pot for next year too though. People often say one major insult per year, I'm finding that one per two years can be better for me. Maybe it makes sense given my climate, no recovery happening over winter months kind of thing. I think I will prune it pretty hard during styling this year so I'll most likely just let it be to regrow undisturbed next summer.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I'm very curious to see where it has managed to generate new roots. If it's only out of the cut ends it might prove to be awkward to pot. I'll probably leave it in this pot for next year too though. People often say one major insult per year, I'm finding that one per two years can be better for me. Maybe it makes sense given my climate, no recovery happening over winter months kind of thing. I think I will prune it pretty hard during styling this year so I'll most likely just let it be to regrow undisturbed next summer.

Can create rationale for very different angle and style for tree. Test for growers ingenuity

 

[wireme]

Can create rationale for very different angle and style for tree. Test for growers ingenuity

You're right about that and I have a feeling this one will present a real test when the time comes. Looking forward to finding out. For now, spent a little time with it this morning. It's a start.

 

[wireme]

Tried for a better photo. Not sure if it is, gotta set up a better setup someday.

Anyways, first style, more removal all at once than I normally do, not as much as I would like to do. As far as placement, rough, just enough to make it easy to see and imagine what the next moves will be. Potential looks better than I expected IMO.

 

[defra]

Nice i dig the fir!

 

[my nellie]

@wireme Perhaps you already know this but I thought I would post it here...
Ryan Neil in his video (free) about post growth management at some point (30 and 32 min.) he refers to Douglas as an independent species and says that if you don't prune at the right time (i.e. when the tree is in foliar growth/spring phase) , then every bud you pruned back to will not grow next spring. And he says this is weird!
If you prune when the tree is in vascular growth phase i.e. during fall then every bud you pruned back to will grow in the second spring.

 

[wireme]

@wireme Perhaps you already know this but I thought I would post it here...
Ryan Neil in his video (free) about post growth management at some point (30 and 32 min.) he refers to Douglas as an independent species and says that if you don't prune at the right time (i.e. when the tree is in foliar growth/spring phase) , then every bud you pruned back to will not grow next spring. And he says this is weird!
If you prune when the tree is in vascular growth phase i.e. during fall then every bud you pruned back to will grow in the second spring.

Thanks Nellie. I did see that video.

At first it seemed very strange and I was tempted to just say he's off his rocker. Then I went and had a closer look at my trees.
Here's a pic of this years growth, one of the terminal buds on this tree.

I pointed some yellow arrows at fat well formed buds there. Every one of these will grow and extend next year guaranteed, pruning or no pruning.

Red arrows point to very small undeveloped buds. I guess those are the buds he's talking about. I can't say from observation if those will grow or not next year with or without any pruning habits because my Douglas Fir rarely ever produce those little pre-buds on new growth. Probably just shows that Ryan is better at growing them strong than I am.

I had to look very hard to find any, 99 percent of the new Doug fir extensions on my trees here don't have those wee buds at all, just the fully formed fat ones.
Hopefully in future years I start getting more so I can try what he's saying and find out for myself. For now the choice to prune back to those little budlets or not or when doesn't even really present itself to me so I don't have to worry about it!

 

[my nellie]

... ... I pointed some yellow arrows at fat well formed buds there. Every one of these will grow and extend next year guaranteed, pruning or no pruning... ...

Of course I do not doubt your knowledge of your tree and your experience.
Besides I have no experience with the species.
So you say that if you pruned this branch to that beautiful bud (on edited photo I attach) during this spring it will grow normally next spring.

 

[wireme]

Of course I do not doubt your knowledge of your tree and your experience.
Besides I have no experience with the species.
So you say that if you pruned this branch to that beautiful bud (on edited photo I attach) during this spring it will grow normally next spring.

You bet it will, no doubt, that has been my practice for many years. Normally I would prune to the pair further out in spring, all three would extend.
The small less formed buds further in, (red arrows) maybe not, it seems that Ryan is saying they won't grow until the following year. I don't know for sure myself.

I can say that if a Douglas fir gets pruned very hard in winter or spring they are capable of both producing new buds out of nowhere and extending them that same year. That is very hard pruning, taking off all the buds. I would never do that but I see it on small trees in the wild all the time because the deer and elk browse them hard over winter around here.

 

[0soyoung]

@wireme Perhaps you already know this but I thought I would post it here...
Ryan Neil in his video (free) about post growth management at some point (30 and 32 min.) he refers to Douglas as an independent species and says that if you don't prune at the right time (i.e. when the tree is in foliar growth/spring phase) , then every bud you pruned back to will not grow next spring. And he says this is weird!
If you prune when the tree is in vascular growth phase i.e. during fall then every bud you pruned back to will grow in the second spring.

I've been growing a number of Douglas fir saplings (of unknown provenance from Arborday) for a few year now and have NEVER seen this to be the case. Maybe it is an age-related phenomenon akin to not back budding onto wood that is less than about 8 years old - dunno.

Maybe it is related to the subspecies. Just this year, I have had a couple of possible 2-year buds on one of my volunteers that are undoubtedly coastal pseudotsugas. However, my volunteers had never been pruned before and it is quite possible that these two lateral shoots each came from a lateral tip bud.

Otherwise, buds are set only on new growth and all buds break the next season (I've always had some new buds near the tips that flush in the same season; IOW, all reliably put out a second flush). I agree with Ryan that pruning below the last bud creates a dead branch - done it many times while experimenting.

 

[wireme]

I've been growing a number of Douglas fir saplings (of unknown provenance from Arborday) for a few year now and have NEVER seen this to be the case. Maybe it is an age-related phenomenon akin to not back budding onto wood that is less than about 8 years old - dunno.

Maybe it is related to the subspecies. Just this year, I have had a couple of possible 2-year buds on one of my volunteers that are undoubtedly coastal pseudotsugas. However, my volunteers had never been pruned before and it is quite possible that these two lateral shoots each came from a lateral tip bud.

Otherwise, buds are set only on new growth and all buds break the next season (I've always had some new buds near the tips that flush in the same season; IOW, all reliably put out a second flush). I agree with Ryan that pruning below the last bud creates a dead branch - done it many times while experimenting.

Glad to see you chime in Oso, I'd like to see your firs someday, I know they're young but still..
Just curious, if you have a look at yours do you see the different bud types like the ones in my photo above?

 

[PiñonJ]

The small less formed buds further in, (red arrows) maybe not, it seems that Ryan is saying they won't grow until the following year. I don't know for sure myself.

What Ryan is saying is that it depends on the timing. If new shoots are pruned prior to new growth hardening off, immature buds can open next year. If pruned after hardening off, immature buds won't open until two springs from now.

 

[wireme]

What Ryan is saying is that it depends on the timing. If new shoots are pruned prior to new growth hardening off, immature buds can open next year. If pruned after hardening off, immature buds won't open until two springs from now.

Yeah, I get that. I think the thing is that clarification of mature buds vs immature buds is important. Like my photo above. All those mature buds will open regardless, even further in like the one Nellie circled. I think some
people who watched the video were left with the impression that only the buds right on the ends will open on time unless pruned at the right time. Not true, you can have many mature buds all the way down the new growth ready for next season and prune back to them anytime at all. Those immature buds are and have been quite rare to appear at all for me, I have a couple hypothesis why, thinking it over..