Dumb Question: How Does Bonsai Progress?

[BobbyLane]

Check out this excellent video. It won't answer all of your questions, but it may answer several. At the beginning Arthur talks about the background of the tree, and how it started as one of four air-layers from the same mother plant. Then he shows how he used three of those air-layers in a group planting, while he stuck this tree in the ground. Considering he started with four clones, the difference is remarkable. Both compositions are becoming great bonsai, but the vision was different, and so the path to develop the bonsai was different.

He has quite a few demos on youtube on his own channel, working with deciduous. here's another ive shared a few times on here. his style is a little different to what most folk practice here on the forum, I guess thats why we havnt really seen his work posted here much. which is a shame really.

 

[orangeyeoman]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people nowawadays never even think to look at a book first and just expect to find all the truth online from un proven sources!!!!

Plenty of shite bonsai books out there, with information as bad as the worst YouTube videos. As with anything, it's knowing where to go for the right answers.

 

[BobbyLane]

Plenty of shite bonsai books out there, with information as bad as the worst YouTube videos. As with anything, it's knowing where to go for the right answers.

wouldnt say theyre shite, maybe just a little dated. you gotta start somewhere, if it means going down a few rabbit holes thats ok, as long as you come out the other end

 

[orangeyeoman]

wouldnt say theyre shite, maybe just a little dated. you gotta start somewhere, if it means going down a few rabbit holes thats ok, as long as you come out the other end

If you go down to the average bookstore or library, and picked up whatever books they have on bonsai, chances are they're pretty shite. It's the publishing equivalent of mallsai. I'm in NYC. The public library collection on bonsai is more like a self-help section. Practically "Eat, Plant, Love". There are a few good books in there, but most are schlock.

I should add that I am a total newbie, and lurked here for 2 years before I even bought a nursery juniper to kill. I've read probably 8 books so far, and still feel like I have no clue what I'm doing. Getting actual plants, and trying stuff seems almost as beneficial as the reading. Life is too busy right now to take a workshop, and the club scene around here is non-existent until you're well outside the city.

 

[BobbyLane]

If you go down to the average bookstore or library, and picked up whatever books they have on bonsai, chances are they're pretty shite. It's the publishing equivalent of mallsai. I'm in NYC. The public library collection on bonsai is more like a self-help section. Practically "Eat, Plant, Love". There are a few good books in there, but most are schlock.

I should add that I am a total newbie, and lurked here for 2 years before I even bought a nursery juniper to kill. I've read probably 8 books so far, and still feel like I have no clue what I'm doing. Getting actual plants, and trying stuff seems almost as beneficial as the reading. Life is too busy right now to take a workshop, and the club scene around here is non-existent until you're well outside the city.

Ive still never taken a workshop. most of what I know has been learnt online and a hands on approach, just sorta doing my own thing mostly. with books i usually ended up speed reading and looking at the images. I think ive taken a little something from each and every rabbit hole I went down. we all learn differently but books tend to bore me, im more a visual person, watching videos or going out in the woods and looking at trees. studying progression threads on various platforms not just here. when I started i was a member of forums worldwide, but didnt post on all of them, just lurked.

 

[Calnicky]

A book that I've found really helpful for progressions is Bonsai Life Histories by Martin Treasure (Firefly Books, 2002). He details 30+ different trees - nursery stock, yardadori, etc. - in their progression from sticks or stumps to something beautiful. This is one of the few books I've actually read cover-to-cover rather than thumbing through.

Another good one is The Art of Natural Bonsai: Replicating Nature's Beauty by Dave Joyce (Sterling publishing Co., 2003). He includes "case histories" for multiple trees and species, along with his sketches for many of the trees, photos and technical details. You get a good idea of the progression of a tree from his photos which are shot in different seasons over many years (generally over a 10-12 year period.

Hope these help.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I would suggest you look at Nigel Saunders "The Bonsai Zone" videos on YouTube. His style is more geared to the beginner's level of bonsai. Not to say that he doesn't have some really nice bonsai, just that he explains things at a simpler level. Ryan Neil is a fantastic bonsai artist, but he is for when you get much further along in your bonsai journey. Blue Sky bonsai on YouTubegivess another entry-level to intermediate style of bonsai. Jason Chan from Eastern Leaf Bonsai is another great channel that covers bonsai from beginning to intricate.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

He has quite a few demos on youtube on his own channel, working with deciduous. here's another ive shared a few times on here. his style is a little different to what most folk practice here on the forum, I guess thats why we havnt really seen his work posted here much. which is a shame really.

Some bonsai practitioners in the US have national reputations. Some have strong regional reputations. Some excellent practitioners fly under the radar and perhaps don't get the recognition they deserve.

I had never heard of Arthur Joura until I moved to the East Coast. I only live a couple of hours away, but even now have not been out to the North Carolina Arboretum. Too much going on in my "real life" atm. I have spoken to him via email however, and I hope to meet him in person soon - perhaps at the Winter Show in December.

 

[rockm]

Some bonsai practitioners in the US have national reputations. Some have strong regional reputations. Some excellent practitioners fly under the radar and perhaps don't get the recognition they deserve.

I had never heard of Arthur Joura until I moved to the East Coast. I only live a couple of hours away, but even now have not been out to the North Carolina Arboretum. Too much going on in my "real life" atm. I have spoken to him via email however, and I hope to meet him in person soon - perhaps at the Winter Show in December.

Arthur Joura has posted extremely thoughtful and introspective posts on bonsai over at the International Bonsai Club (IBC)site for very long time now. That site isn't nearly as active as it used to be...He's a top notch bonsai professional who has been doing this for a very long time. Never gets recognition, but should. John Naka influenced the west coast. Yuji Yoshimura influenced the east coast. Joura and Bill Valavanis and a few others around these parts studied under Yoshimura.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Interesting progression animation (i watch it on mute)

bonsai progression animation - Bing video

www.bing.com

 

[dbonsaiw]

I'm sure this is a dumb question, but I figure this is the place for it. So I've been watching a variety of videos about bonsai and they seem to fall into two categories: 1. Trimming up a small specimen so it's roots and a leader, in preparation for its future growth. 2. Taking a pre-established tree and refining it in this or that way.

To oversimplify things, we are trying to develop the "small specimen" into the "pre-established tree" in a pot. Starting with the latter, once the tree has been developed into what we want, it needs to be maintained so that our developed tree remains that way and doesn't just grow out of what we worked so hard to achieve. There is a good deal of literature/videos on this as there is a lot to learn here.

Trimming up the roots and trunk/branches of the smaller specimen is what we will be doing from time to time to develop the taper/movement we want in the trunk as well as the nebari. Lots of literature/videos on this as well. For example, (again oversimplifying) if I want a 12 inch tall tree, I may opt for a 1:6 ratio of base diameter to height of tree. I'll get my tree potted in the right season so the nebari can develop and the roots have room to grow. And then it's time to grow. No videos on this as we are just watering and fertilizing until we have roughly a 2 inch base. Then I can do the trunk/root pruning you see in the videos - cut the roots back to give them more room and also develop the nebari; cut the trunk back to about 4 inches and grow the new leader. Then its time to grow again. When the next section of leader is about 2/3 of the one below, I'll chop the trunk down again and grow the next leader. Rinse, lather and repeat until the trunk has its basic form and branch development can begin. Ultimately, we don't want the tree growing crazy like we did for so many years so it goes into the little pot and that's where the refinement videos come in.

 

[ShadyStump]

To oversimplify things, we are trying to develop the "small specimen" into the "pre-established tree" in a pot. Starting with the latter, once the tree has been developed into what we want, it needs to be maintained so that our developed tree remains that way and doesn't just grow out of what we worked so hard to achieve. There is a good deal of literature/videos on this as there is a lot to learn here.

Trimming up the roots and trunk/branches of the smaller specimen is what we will be doing from time to time to develop the taper/movement we want in the trunk as well as the nebari. Lots of literature/videos on this as well. For example, (again oversimplifying) if I want a 12 inch tall tree, I may opt for a 1:6 ratio of base diameter to height of tree. I'll get my tree potted in the right season so the nebari can develop and the roots have room to grow. And then it's time to grow. No videos on this as we are just watering and fertilizing until we have roughly a 2 inch base. Then I can do the trunk/root pruning you see in the videos - cut the roots back to give them more room and also develop the nebari; cut the trunk back to about 4 inches and grow the new leader. Then its time to grow again. When the next section of leader is about 2/3 of the one below, I'll chop the trunk down again and grow the next leader. Rinse, lather and repeat until the trunk has its basic form and branch development can begin. Ultimately, we don't want the tree growing crazy like we did for so many years so it goes into the little pot and that's where the refinement videos come in.

Very well explained. Great over view of the development stage and it's place in the process.
Not every tree's development will look like this, especially not conifers, but this is clear and concise without overloading the reader.

 

[Colt Carson]

In the 70s as a kid, if I wanted to record a song, I had to wait for it to be played on the radio and then quickly record it with my cassette recorder. That was provided none of my siblings talked while I was recording. In the 80s as a young adult, if I wanted to educate myself on a subject, I had to make a 20-30 minute drive to the bookstore. We now hold most of the knowledge possessed by humans in our hands. I think I’ll watch some epic fail videos now.