Dwarf alberta spruce

[shanequin83]

I went to Home Depot to get a new pot for my jade plant (not bonsai). It was around the middle of October and they had there last few trees and shrubs outside on sale. I grabbed a Dwarf Alberta Spruce. Not sure of the age. From soil to where they cut the top is 13". And the truck at the base is 1". And the foliage is pretty dense. I intend on putting it in the ground for a year or so. Or at least until I feel it is ready for my liking. My questions are... how much should I trim back the foliage before putting in the ground ? What kind of tile should I use to bury it on top of ? I have read a lot of books in the past few months and this is my 1st bonsai.

Any support would be a tremendous help. Thank you

 

[John Ruger]

I don't know that you need to cut back on foliage yet. As for tile, I've used smaller sized dishware.

 

[Bill S]

Good for you on joining the madness of bonsai, but , ya I no the dreaded but, enthusiasm is great, but you have to work within bounds of what the tree can take. Start with put in your profile your location, even if it is general, location matters even in bonsai. If you do root work when putting this in the ground it will need to be there for 2 to 4 years or you are wasting your time and possibly killing the tree. Having it in the ground for the winter will accomplish nothing at this point, so read up on the horticultural aspects of growing bonsai. a saying in our world is one major insult in a growing period, some can be combined, but after that it needs to grow and become healthy.
As far as rimming before hand, I haven't worked with these but some may make sense to open the rest up to sun light, other will probably chime in on work with these.

Good for you though, you are a bit ahead of the curve, and at least not trying to reduce the needels yet Patience is a word that gets tossed around , but it is important to work with the tree which means knowing what you can do horticulturally, the whys help too.

 

[Stan Kengai]

I don't know too much about spruces, but here is a link to Harry Harrington's species guide http://bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Picea.html

I wouldn't recommend putting your tree in the ground until you have checked the roots. What you are looking to see is if the roots have colonized the pot completely or not, or if the tree rootbound. On a day close to planting time (not now or you could risk root damage) when the soil is on the dry side, gently lift the tree from its pot. If it takes more than a gently pull, you can guarantee the plant is rootbound so leave it until you're ready to transplant. If the plant comes out of the pot, is the rootball intact (meaning all of the soil comes out of the pot with the roots)? You should see the white tips of the roots on the outside of the rootball. If the rootball is not intact (meaning 1/4 to 1/2 of the soil remains in the pot), look for possible root or soil problems: slimy soil or roots, foul smelling soil, significant difference in soil texture or moisture between rooted and non-rooted portions, bugs, etc. If there are no apparent problems, put the non-intact plant back in the pot until next fall since it still has room to grow in the pot. Transplant if rootbound or intact when weather permits. As far as planting is on a tile, I don't know if it's necessary or beneficial with this species, but I will share an observation I made concerning planting conifers on a tile.

About 10 years ago, I was planting several shimpaku junipers on tiles in the ground. I picked up some old plates at the Goodwill that I thought would work great (and they did the job). But I was lacking 2 plates, so I decided to use some hardi-plank (cement siding) we had left over. [Let me preface this with our particular environmental condition: We have very acidic soil (tests ranged from 5.0 to 5.8) because the soil is extremely eroded and contains lots of iron.] The junipers growing on the cement board easily outgrew the others, and they were a deeper green and generally more healthy. Conifers, in general, like neutral to alkaline soil, and obviously the lime in the cement neutralized the acidic soil, giving the junipers more ideal growing conditions. So, if you have acidic soil, I would highly recommend using cement board as a planting tile for conifers.

 

[shanequin83]

Thank you Bill. i decided that i will trim some of the lowest branches. i believe i have picked my 1st branch, but that my change over the next year or two while its in the ground. i will clean it out as to get some light on the inside and see what other trees or shrubs i can find and get ready to be busy in the spring. thank you again bill.

 

[shanequin83]

thank you Stan. i have some cement foot path stone. i believe that should work fine? many thanks again

 

[shanequin83]

do you think the cement would be to porous ?

 

[Stan Kengai]

thank you Stan. i have some cement foot path stone. i believe that should work fine? many thanks again

Use the concrete stones at your own risk (there is a difference between concrete and cement), I wouldn't recommend them until I've tested them. They could wick water away from the plant (especially if not completely covered) or they could leach too much lime, both because they are rather porous. The cement siding is a composite of cement and wood fibers that is pressed into shape, and it is not nearly as porous a concrete.

 

[rockm]

You have chosen a pretty difficult species to work with. Alberta spruce doesn't cooperate much with bonsai training and the cute stock at the big-box stores is especially uncooperative. The primary problem is all the branching on those trees grows stiffly UP an refuses to be bent down into the flatter places needed for bonsai. Wire won't do it, only drastically scarring the branch, bending it down, then applying wire, gets the job done--until the branch starts pulling back into its original position in a few years...

Also, unless you leave the tree in the ground on the stone for at least five years (Ten would be better), you are unlikely to see much nebari development. Alberta spruce are pretty slow growers and don't thicken rapidly.

Alberta spruce from Lowes were my first "do it yourself" attempt at bonsai 20 years ago. I learned all of the above over the years with those trees. Their upside is they can't really be killed. I finally got rid of them two years ago.

 

[shanequin83]

Stan- this siding u speak of... is it generally thin, square and greenish colored. if so, that is what is on my house. and there is a sack of it behind my garage that the land lord told me i could throw away. maybe i hit the jackpot. lol

 

[shanequin83]

Rock- well i do intend on getting some more material. i will use your advice for the future. i guess ill be waiting a while to see what i can do with this little guy. thank you again.

 

[Bill S]

Shane the only other thing I'd offer at this point is hold off on loosing the low branches, we often like to let these run wild as sacrifice branches to help build size on the lower trunks to help with taper, got photo's?

 

[shanequin83]

I will throw some pics up as soon as possible. probably later today (saturday). i will also be making another thread involving some (sugar) maples i dug up from the north side of my house. talk to you later.

 

[shanequin83]

the second picture is of the cut that was done to the top before i ever got it.

 

[Lancaster]

Shanequin83, here is an alberta that I picked up from Lowes several years ago. I tried to find a more recent pic, as it has changed quite a bit.
But, you were asking what to do with recently aquired nursery material, so here you go. Maybe this could give you some ideas.

I would say, thin it out a bit, wire some branches. Look and see what the tree is going to offer you. Maybe do a quick sketch of what the tree
looks like now. And then what it could look like if you took this branch off, or moved this over this way.

Whatever you do, have fun. Hope this helps a little bit.

-Troy

 

[Jason]

You have chosen a pretty difficult species to work with. Alberta spruce doesn't cooperate much with bonsai training and the cute stock at the big-box stores is especially uncooperative. The primary problem is all the branching on those trees grows stiffly UP an refuses to be bent down into the flatter places needed for bonsai. Wire won't do it, only drastically scarring the branch, bending it down, then applying wire, gets the job done--until the branch starts pulling back into its original position in a few years...

Also, unless you leave the tree in the ground on the stone for at least five years (Ten would be better), you are unlikely to see much nebari development. Alberta spruce are pretty slow growers and don't thicken rapidly.

Alberta spruce from Lowes were my first "do it yourself" attempt at bonsai 20 years ago. I learned all of the above over the years with those trees. Their upside is they can't really be killed. I finally got rid of them two years ago.

Ditto to everything stated above. My first "do it yourself" was an Alberta when I lived in Green Bay. I still have it (it's moved across the country with me) and the only good thing is the nebari. I'm still struggling with the top. If you want a conundrum this is the species for you. It's almost been composted 10x. It won't die, and we have a love-hate relationship. I probably will never throw it away and it probably will never amount to anything. At this point, it's sentimental. It's been a formal upright, a informal upright, a raft, and most recently a windswept (that shows how desperate I've become). I think keeping only one or two secondary branches is the key to development. It's madness!!

Go Pack!

 

[JudyB]

Jason, not looking so good for the pack. I'm a shareholder, so hoping for a turnaround in the 4th...

Where in Oregon did you go?

Sorry not trying to hijack the thread. I think that shane, you'll learn something from this tree even if you never make a decent bonsai from it. I have plenty of experience in that arena. Just go for it, they are pretty bulletproof.

 

[shanequin83]

No problem for the hijack judy.
Troy- thanks for sharing that pic.
Jason- I'll keep it for as long as it will stay. I'm not gonna let a stubborn lil guy get me down. i know i was stubborn growing up but my mom kept me around. anyway all the advice i get on these forums i write down so its quick access.

 

[Jason]

Jason, not looking so good for the pack. I'm a shareholder, so hoping for a turnaround in the 4th...

Where in Oregon did you go?

Sorry not trying to hijack the thread. I think that shane, you'll learn something from this tree even if you never make a decent bonsai from it. I have plenty of experience in that arena. Just go for it, they are pretty bulletproof.

No turn around in the fourth....maybe next year I was a fan for 27 years before they won a Super Bowl so I'm patient. Which is a direct tie in with that Alberta Spruce.

Judy, I'm in the Willamette Valley South of Portland. It looked like this when I woke up this a.m. Apparently the snow followed me.