DYING OLIVE ?

[everton]

Hi
Can anyone please help my struggling bonsai olive, unfortunately it has lost about half of its leaves last 2 months. The leaves are curling up dying and dropping off, they are not yellowing, some are going brown and dropping off but some are dropping off when they are still green. I'm not sure if I have under watered definitely not over watered, one branch has lost all its leaves and is brittle at the ends but I have scraped a little bit of the bark back the beginning of the branch and it is still green so I'm not sure if the branch is still alive or not.
I mist everyday but I live in an apartment and the humidity is very low about 40% to 45%, the tree is only about 5 years old which I inherited from my late brother who unfortunately died prematurely last year so I you have strong emotional attachments. I keep the tree in the bay window so it gets enough light, I also have a fig which is about 20 years old and is thriving so I don't really understand. It seemed to start struggling mid-december maybe when the central heating came on, I live in the UK and it's winter.

I have enclosed a few photos, can anyone please help as I am thinking it may be recoverable, hopefully.
Thanks

 

[AZbonsai]

Sorry to hear about your brother. Do you know if he kept the plant indoors or out. Ficus can survive inside, olive, not so much has been my experience. The central heat may be drying it out a bit. How cold is it where you live? Here are some suggestions for your olive that you might consider.

https://www.bonsaiboy.com/catalog/olivecare.html

 

[everton]

Thanks. He kept it inside all the time for five years , it's a constant 20c in my apartment but it has low humidity but feel when the central heating went on it has dried it out. I did some pruning a couple of months ago but not much so I'm not sure whether that had an effect ,It's in the middle of the winter about 8 -10 degrees Celsius outside . Looking at the photos do you think it's beyond recovery?

 

[everton]

Also I'm a little concerned about having it near the window as I need to keep the window open to lower the humidity, could the draught from the window be affecting it and even worse could it be killing it?

 

[AZbonsai]

I dont think it is beyond recovery olives are pretty resilient. You say your opening and closing the window. Most plants prefer consistancy in temperature. Too much humidity for an olive is pretty tough to achieve so maybe leave the window closed. I do not know if this is the case but plants that are moved around often, even inside a house, take time to acclimate to their new surroundings. Is it by the air vent....that could cause some issues.

 

[everton]

It sits in a bay window with the main window slightly open during the daytime.Worried that the draught might be causing this problem .

 

[my nellie]

Will you please fill in your profile with your country/city.
This will provide basic information for answering your questions.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I find olives tough to kill.
Back in the days, my boss ordered a truckload of olive trees. We used to spray paint them silver and blue, forgot to water them for months, froze them and threw them around. Some stayed dormant for a year, but they never died. I have one on the bench now that survived -12 degrees C frosts without visible damage.

So as long as it's just what you're describing, it will most likely live. But to get it in good health, I think you should start considering the outdoors.

 

[everton]

The problem is it's been losing leaves daily for 2 months, so it must be one of three things , low humidity which is a 40% in my apartment, having it by a draught in the bay window, or some type of infection from pruning- unfortunately these have all coincided with one another. If I move it away from the window it won't get the fresh air that I think it needs also the light, placing it outdoors is not an option. It is showing no signs of new leaves which can't be a good sign even in the winter.

 

[sorce]

Sounds like the heat changed some things.

Maybe making it dry out too fast.

Here's the thing....

He May have been able to come up with a watering scedule or idea that worked in his place with that soil.

It is completely possible you just can not replicate that success in your flat. Due to slight differences in sun, humid, etc.

Leave the window closed sure. Those leaves do look like cold draft leaves.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[everton]

Do you think I need to increase the humidity and if so how would I do that - humidity tent?

 

[Gustavo Martins]

Olives are Mediterranean trees. I don’t believe they are afeected by low humidity. You should see the habitat they live in. Here in Portugal they withstand over 40 C and no rain for at least 3-4 months per year. I remember reading they can live on 2L of water a year. If anything, you’re keeping it too wet.

 

[everton]

It does look dried out and if I was over watering the leaves would go yellow though .

 

[Cristian D.]

Did you considered changing the substrate?
It seems it is in potting soil, that retains too much water for an olive. Moist soil + low growth rate = root problems.
Maybe you can try changing the soil and replacing with a well draining inorganic substrate. Cut all the rotten roots, sure you will find several. Depending how much roots will be left, you may consider reducing some of the branches, try to balance the healthy roots with the amount of branches/leaves they have to support.
Then start fertilizing, gradualy.
Low humidity is not a problem, they can also survive strong winds.
Keep in mind that olives need not only warm temperatures. Strong light is even more important for them in order to grow.
Even in a healthy olive is normal to lose some older leafs, because senescence.
Misting the leaves won't do too much for the tree, except maybe promoting mold or other diseases. The leaves are covered in a waxy substance, in order to avoid too much water loss. This may prevent water absorbtion.
Good luck with the tree,

 

[everton]

It's actually not all soil it has a 50 50 gravel mix at the bottom of the pot but I may change the substrate. Fortunately it has now stopped losing leaves, the leaf drop stopped about a week ago for one of two reasons, either moving it away from the open window or putting some water in the drip tray. As you can see the plant pot sits in another Pot with stones beneath the first pot so using it as a humidity tray, so I put small amount of water in the base of the humidity tray. The Olive Tree has now stopped losing leaves and is in fact now showing new shoots which is a relief but one of the three main branches out of the trunk is pretty much dead, there are no leaves whatsoever on this branch and the twigs on the branch are brittle so I presume it is dead. I have made a small incision at the base of the branch and cut beneath the bark to see if it is green which it is but the twigs coming off the branch are dead unfortunately. Do you think I should cut the whole branch off?
Thanks for your reply, what you said makes sense because I do think there was a problem with the substrate and getting water to the roots, your response was educational. Cheers

 

[Cristian D.]

If you like the "dead" branch waith for it. A healthy tree can bud on old wood if it has surplus energy. If you don't like that branch you can cut it now
Regarding the soil: if I understood correctly, the upper part is potting spoil and the lower part has a gravel mix. It may be possible the upper part is too moist because the nature of the soil. And the lower part is too moist because of the perched water table. I noticed something interesting those days, when washing pumice for repotting my plants. Even straight pumice (3-6mm) in a mesh colander (a pasta strainer) has a layer of more than 1cm of standing water at the bottom. Imagine how much water, that we are not aware of, stays at the bottom of a pot with a substrate with less open spaces and more capilarity.

I don't know how much experience you have, so I'm sorry if what I say is already known to you.

Regarding the soil, here you have a very good article about soil, watering, fertilizing. They go togheter, don't make the mistake to use for example a watering regime from someone with a different soil than yours, and then fertilize like someone else.
http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/2010/06/feeding-substrate-and-watering-english.html

It seems too me that your tree have too many branches and when is in full leafs there may be branches on the inside that won't receive enough light. Here is already spring and the olives are shooting new leaves. Soon they start to do the same in your area. When the tree will start growing you will have to decide if is necessary to reduce some branches or no.

Also, if you have time, have a look here: https://www.kaizenbonsai.com/bonsai...of-the-mediterranean-the-olive-tree-as-bonsai
It has good advice and, most important, is for growing the olive tree in your country.

Good luck!

 

[It's Kev]

It's actually not all soil it has a 50 50 gravel mix at the bottom of the pot but I may change the substrate. Fortunately it has now stopped losing leaves, the leaf drop stopped about a week ago for one of two reasons, either moving it away from the open window or putting some water in the drip tray. As you can see the plant pot sits in another Pot with stones beneath the first pot so using it as a humidity tray, so I put small amount of water in the base of the humidity tray. The Olive Tree has now stopped losing leaves and is in fact now showing new shoots which is a relief but one of the three main branches out of the trunk is pretty much dead, there are no leaves whatsoever on this branch and the twigs on the branch are brittle so I presume it is dead. I have made a small incision at the base of the branch and cut beneath the bark to see if it is green which it is but the twigs coming off the branch are dead unfortunately. Do you think I should cut the whole branch off?
Thanks for your reply, what you said makes sense because I do think there was a problem with the substrate and getting water to the roots, your response was educational. Cheers

I read this in a loud shouty voice

 

[everton]

I read this in a loud shouty voice

That's because you look a bit of a twerp to be honest ,
Do you think you are Bruce Lee or something

 

[Cristian D.]

BTW, I forgot to tell you before when talking about reducing branches.
Don't count on the olive closing the wounds like a maple or an elm, for example. It may happen, but it will be more like an exception, not a rule. So plan your cuts accordingly. Removing bigger branches from the trunk will leave a scar. When cutting a branch (to reduce its lenght) you may have some dieback, not much, but is possible, depending if the branch is active or not.

Look at this olive, I worked on it last week.



It was planted in potting soil and it had 3 big branches. The left and right one are already cut with a saw, if you look closely you can see the stub is bigger than it should. on the right branch is more clear. I left it like that in case of a small dieback. It should't happen, but just in case, I can always work on it later if needed.

I had to saw the base, to make it flatter with the roos exiting as much as possible on the same plane. After taking the pic I sealed the base. I removed a lot of roots, but since it doesn't have to feed a lot of leaves it will be ok.


Planted in pumice, with the middle branch (almost a trunk) removed. There I cut a "V" with the saw. Again, I cut higher than it would look good, in case it will die back a little. When it will be stable I can finish it with a dremel.


This is another one pruned last weekend. This one was planted in seramis last summer, at this time I didn't do anything to the roots. Tere were small buds on the branches, next week I think I'll have new leaves.

 

[everton]

So are you saying it's best to cut the branch gradually to avoid dieback ? I'm only a novice, about 18 months so forgive my ignorance. At the moment I quite like the symmetry of the branches so I'm going to try and save as much as I can of the third branch but I reckon I will reduce it by about half and hope for the best that new shoot will appear. I haven't decided yet quite what style I'm going for but for the time being I'm going to play it simple with the style. What I have decided is that I will probably go for the pumice and repot next month when it's a bit warmer , I will also probably leave the pruning and cutting till then.
Again, much appreciated.

p.s. Sorry for the large text my browser is playing up
As a side interest here's some pictures of my healthier ficus, ironically it seems to be thriving but is overdue pruning.