Eastern White cedar wintering questions

[youngsai]

So, I spent some time up in Massachusetts and in Maine collecting and hanging with a few Bonsai peeps of mine, and accdoring to them, I should keep both my larch and Eastern white cedar outdoors and unprotected. What do you all feel about this?

I moved half inside and out, because I am wary of this information. The person who told me, showed me a dead pile of trees that had, quite literally the most fantastic trunks of cedar and larch that I had ever seen. Which scared into thinking perhaps I should ask around a bit more.

So, in winter, inside or out with the cedar and larch?

 

[Dav4]

Both are incredibly cold hardy...at least done to zone 3 (the larch maybe even colder). I think healthy, established arborvitae and larch would laugh at a northern NJ winter...keeping them outside shouldn't be a problem.

 

[mc4mc44]

The person who told me, showed me a dead pile of trees that had, quite literally the most fantastic trunks of cedar and larch that I had ever seen. Which scared into thinking perhaps I should ask around a bit more.

Trees die for lots of reasons, just because someone has a dead tree pile doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to them. Everyone who collects trees has a pile of dead ones...

Larch and cedar are two of the most cold hardy trees we have in the US. Mine sit right on the ground with a windbreak. I mulch the small pots, but the larger ones do fine on their own. They go in the same area as my PP and RMJ.

 

[crust]

I have done larch and cedar in zone 3 for 35 years. They are both profoundly cold hardy trees. They respond to freezing in the fall by going into a long and content sleep until spring--even when just dug in HOWEVER I have noted over the years that modern weather irregularities that are creeping into to the north can damage them. Freak thaws, freak deep freezes after days in the 80's, freak heat and drying, usually all in early spring can all do tissue damage and can, and have, killed plants. Ironically a warmer zone is even more prone to these issues. I keep all my trees in a storage facility which I keep frozen and in the twenties as long as I can. I think for you keeping them frozen and unroused is more important than protection from deep cold temps. This requires a select kind of protection. Shade and snow banking is useful tactic. There was a bloke up here that actually used a freezing unit in his storage area. I use cold evening ventilation tactics, superinsulation and near darkness. This being said, my trees usually never see anything lower than teens.

 

[youngsai]

Awesome thanks for the responses, that should make the rents happy that I can move out almost half my collection

 

[fourteener]

They need to be outside. Mine are now buried for the winter under 30 inches of snow we had last week. I keep them on the north side and shady west side of my garage so fluctuating spring temps will have them come alive at a slow steady pace. Let'em freeze, Let'em thaw slowly.

 

[rps]

i echo crust's comments. the cold per se is not the challenge, but nature's spring/autumn mood swings. modest protection (in my own case wood chip mulch above pot level in a shady, wind-sheltered corner with the snow piled high) will shepherd our thuja and larix happily through the nastiest of winters. it hovered around -30C (-22F) here today and promises to court -36C (-33F) overnight, with more of the same all through next week. but i won't worry about the thuja until the freeze-thaw-freeze melodrama that passes for spring hereabouts. even then, there's usually enough residual ground snow to move around that i can (with a little effort) keep my charges buried, dormant and alone with their private thoughts.

 

[october]

All the information given is accurate. There are some exceptions to note though. Trees that are sick, recently repotted/root pruned, recently collected or very small should be given some protection. Also, I protect my trees from winds in the winter. It is just something I do.

Rob

 

[crust]

These tree can be killed by exposure though. I have experimented by leaving bonsai larch(ones I out grew) out on a bench all winter as an experiment. They would die. I think that over protection, in the form of not allowing the plant to freeze for a sustained time is the only problem. Protection from wind, drying, temperature fluctuation and even more important, vermin and crashing invaders and ice storms damage is of significant benefit--gladly my years of outdoor housing are long over because of these issues--but really, winter access is the big one. I have housed and protected my hardy larch and cedars for many years. They don't get colder than in the teens, usually low twenties. This is because my facility holds them at that naturally with no additional heating. I find it imperative to do winter work on these trees--if they are frozen into a snow bank this is pretty hard, thus they reside on shelves, frozen, in my cold storage. When I want to work a tree. I open the door go get it and work on it in my little adjunct heated studio--or if it is sunny I take it out into the greenhouse side. Being inundated with 50 larch to wire in the rush of spring is impossible. Plus I have seen first hand winter larch death at the hands of a world-class larch expert, all because, in my opinion, the new variable weather, erratic springs, crazy falls, unusual winters much hotter summers. These are amazing, detailed, slowed down, trees--very dwarfed, there vigor held in check. Just like recently worked trees or sick ones, these trees are more vulnerable.

 

[rps]

crust. is your winter set up a converted garage/shed, large cold-bed or other?
as time allows, i've been working on a winter bunker cold-bed that (if i ever complete the cussed thing) should allow me to winter some out of zone temperates --- but, your winter access/work remarks certainly ring true. when ones trees are buried in a snow bank, the narrow window that is spring makes related work a mad caper.
would you be willing to post a few snapshots?