Ebihara maples

[markyscott]

And avoid plywood

 

[Canada Bonsai]

I've gone through this thread start-to-finish quite a few times. Although it has been a while since I last read through it, I can't remember coming across this detail that Andrea Meriggioli spends 3 pages on in his new book. I thought it would be important, or at least interesting, to include this information in this famous thread.

Meriggioli notes that when nailing or stapling roots the board for the 'Ebihara nebari-development technique', the nails and staples are not merely meant to hold the roots aligned on the board. The nails should also cross at locations where we want the thickening roots to choke and air-layer themselves, causing root ramification.

@Adair M @markyscott Is this something that Boon ever mentioned? Matt O is currently traveling but i'm going to run this by him as well.

here's a thread on the book:

Bonsai Maples- Andrea Meriggioli

Received my newest book the other day and i am finding it well worth obtaining. Of particular interest so far is the clear summary of development techniques and stages described beginning in chapter eight. Clear pictures, descriptions and discussion. I am only part way through the book but...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[markyscott]

I've gone through this thread start-to-finish quite a few times. Although it has been a while since I last read through it, I can't remember coming across this detail that Andrea Meriggioli spends 3 pages on in his new book. I thought it would be important, or at least interesting, to include this information in this famous thread.

Meriggioli notes that when nailing or stapling roots the board for the 'Ebihara nebari-development technique', the nails and staples are not merely meant to hold the roots aligned on the board. The nails should also cross at locations where we want the thickening roots to choke and air-layer themselves, causing root ramification.

@Adair M @markyscott Is this something that Boon ever mentioned? Matt O is currently traveling but i'm going to run this by him as well.

here's a thread on the book:

Bonsai Maples- Andrea Meriggioli

Received my newest book the other day and i am finding it well worth obtaining. Of particular interest so far is the clear summary of development techniques and stages described beginning in chapter eight. Clear pictures, descriptions and discussion. I am only part way through the book but...

www.bonsainut.com

The first I heard of that trick was in his book. I’ve heard one other artist talk about it since reading it. I think it’s interesting and is a good add to the thread. I plan on giving it a go if there’s an opportunity at the next repot.

S

 

[Adair M]

The first I heard of that trick was in his book. I’ve heard one other artist talk about it since reading it. I think it’s interesting and is a good add to the thread. I plan on giving it a go if there’s an opportunity at the next repot.

S

No, Boon hasn’t mentioned it. It might be something that Meriggioli came up with.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

It might be something that Meriggioli came up with

That's what i'm hoping to verify. In principle it is a sound idea and i have no doubt that it works. I'm just curious for the sake of 'history' (and my inner nerd) if this was something Ebihara himself did.

I'm going to try it myself this spring regardless. I'm going to use nails for alignment, and staples for 'choking', so that it will be easy to distinguish and investigate the progress when i re-pot.

 

[MrWunderful]

That's what i'm hoping to verify. In principle it is a sound idea and i have no doubt that it works. I'm just curious for the sake of 'history' (and my inner nerd) if this was something Ebihara himself did.

I'm going to try it myself this spring regardless. I'm going to use nails for alignment, and staples for 'choking', so that it will be easy to distinguish and investigate the progress when i re-pot.

It works with elm, I can verify. I am waiting on this year to verify it with maple.

What I have found though, is Elm roots can be very strong, and will push nails or staples out.
I dont think maple roots will do the same.

That being said, make sure the horseshoe staples or nails are sunk deep. That, or drill multiple holes around the wood, and use wires secured in between the holes to spread out the nebari properly Then they cannot loosen.

 

[0soyoung]

Meriggioli notes that when nailing or stapling roots the board for the 'Ebihara nebari-development technique', the nails and staples are not merely meant to hold the roots aligned on the board. The nails should also cross at locations where we want the thickening roots to choke and air-layer themselves, causing root ramification.

So, the message seems to be that if one is nailing roots (so to speak) don't sweat pinching them between nails. The corollary might be to use thin wire cranked down really tight to tie the tree into a pot to promote ramification.

Meriggioli's root pic and Scott's show roots with little ramification (apparently after years of work).

I get heavily ramified roots like this

, doing nothing (no board, no nails, no screws) but let it grow in Turface MVP and root prune with repotting every year or two.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Unless you got an Elm, Crape Myrtle, or something that grows roots very aggressively, I personally wouldn't bother too much with using two nails crossed to constrict for ramification. It's very tedious and sometimes you got those roots you did not to expect to grow so big you didnt think they needed the constriction to begin with .

What could help with making it easier is like Oso mentioned using thin wire to loop and tie roots. Also try using steel chicken wire nails.

 

[markyscott]

So, the message seems to be that if one is nailing roots (so to speak) don't sweat pinching them between nails. The corollary might be to use thin wire cranked down really tight to tie the tree into a pot to promote ramification.

Meriggioli's root pic and Scott's show roots with little ramification (apparently after years of work).

I get heavily ramified roots like this

, doing nothing (no board, no nails, no screws) but let it grow in Turface MVP and root prune with repotting every year or two.

If your goal is to make roots that look like cotton candy, using a fine-grained soil like turface is the way to go. It’s just not my goal personally - at least for trees in development.

Agree about the frequency of repotting. That’s why we haven’t seen the roots of the example maples in this thread for some time.

S

 

[0soyoung]

If your goal is to make roots that look like cotton candy, using a fine-grained soil like turface is the way to go. It’s just not my goal personally.

In the context of Ebihara horticultural magic, I am becoming a bit confused about just what the goal is.

1. root ramification
2. pancake nebari
3. just nice nebari

 

[Lars Grimm]

In the context of Ebihara horticultural magic, I am becoming a bit confused about just what the goal is.

1. root ramification
2. pancake nebari
3. just nice nebari

My understanding was pancake nebari as that is the Japanese aesthetic. I would think that root ramification would be of benefit to increase the surface area to allow for a smaller container but that is a different issue.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

My understanding is to get the base and nebari you want. Not all deciduous bonsai in Japan have "melted cheese" or "pancake" nebari. Use the various techniques for where you want to get your tree to.

In my short time that I have been using these root techniques, 3 or 4 years I notice better bases on my trees. I've used on Crape myrtle, Hackberry, Japanese maples, trident, and Elm. Even just a tile under a Japanese Black Pine, the roots grow in a way that makes the base really nice.

Amirite or amirong?

 

[Adair M]

My understanding was pancake nebari as that is the Japanese aesthetic. I would think that root ramification would be of benefit to increase the surface area to allow for a smaller container but that is a different issue.

You can use the technique for all the above. Getting the pancake nebari takes longer.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

Well, here is confirmation from Andrea Meriggioli himself!

In his book, Andrea added the 'choking' technique to the 'Ebihara' nebari method, and confirmed that it works beautifully for him.

 

[markyscott]

In the context of Ebihara horticultural magic, I am becoming a bit confused about just what the goal is.

1. root ramification
2. pancake nebari
3. just nice nebari

The goal of this thread is simple - I recognize that Ebihara has grown vastly better trees than me or anyone else that I’ve seen. I like to learn from those who came before me who have proven results by attempting to replicate what they’ve done. Some, not all, of the way Ebihara went about his business is extremely well documented. So, I’ve gone back to the various Kinbon articles in which his work is documented and I’ve spoken to individuals who’ve met and/or worked with Ebihara and tried learn from them. I’ve summarized what I’ve found here and attempted, by way of examples in my own garden, to replicate some of his techniques. Do the techniques work? In my opinion, there is no doubt - Ebihara’s work speaks for itself. Was I able to do it? That’s a different matter - it’s a bit of an experiment for me and a very public one. We’ll all get to see together.

- Scott

 

[markyscott]

Well, here is confirmation from Andrea Meriggioli himself!

In his book, Andrea added the 'choking' technique to the 'Ebihara' nebari method, and confirmed that it works beautifully for him.

View attachment 282233

Grazie mille!

 

[0soyoung]

I like to learn from those who came before me who have proven results by attempting to replicate what they’ve done.

This is the essence of the scientific method. We're of like minds in this regard, though I would dispute how 'proven' a result is, if it cannot be duplicated.

At any rate, my apologies.

 

[Lars Grimm]

This is the essence of the scientific method. We're of like minds in this regard, though I would dispute how 'proven' a result is, if it cannot be duplicated.

This is a really important point regarding duplication. One challenge is that Ebihara seems to be so technically gifted that it is very hard to duplicate. I think of the example of an incredibly skilled surgeon who can operate on cases that no one else can. His/her results may not be reproducible, but that is because of the technical gap and not because of some additional treatment metric.

 

[markyscott]

This is a really important point regarding duplication. One challenge is that Ebihara seems to be so technically gifted that it is very hard to duplicate. I think of the example of an incredibly skilled surgeon who can operate on cases that no one else can. His/her results may not be reproducible, but that is because of the technical gap and not because of some additional treatment metric.

And that may be. I like to think that we’re just growing plants here, not doing brain surgery - how hard could it be? But it may be hard indeed - as a student of bonsai I hope through this thread and others like it, we can all learn together the degree to which Ebihara’s work may be replicated by we mortals.

 

[leatherback]

And that may be. I like to think that we’re just growing plants here, not doing brain surgery - how hard could it be? But it may be hard indeed - as a student of bonsai I hope through this thread and others like it, we can all learn together the degree to which Ebihara’s work may be replicated by we mortals.

Hm.. Am I understanding that people besides ebihara have been unable to do this?
Looks to me simple enough. Maybe I should putt some of my maples out of a pot and do some rootwork.

He does it no all sorts of trees right, not just tridents which are naturally gifted and grow like a liquid?