Elm collection. Root pruning necessary a few seasons ahead?

[SmallTreeGuy]

Hello, all!

On Thanksgiving day at my parents’ place we went for a walk through their woods and I saw this curved elm amidst the forest of straight trunks. I love the sweeping curve so I am considering it for collection.

Now onto the questions lol. Should I root prune some and wait a couple of seasons to collect? Someone gave me this advice and I was wanting to see if that’s recommended here by any of you more experienced at bonsai or yamadori collection. It was also suggested that I do the trunk chop in the woods and let it grow out a season before collecting as well.

Can anyone see the reason to do either of these things? I was planning to collect right at the end of winter right before bud break. The canopy in the woods gets rather thick in the summer so I don’t know that it would get enough sunlight to leave it in the woods after a chop. I’m definitely willing to do these things if it would be better practice for the sake of the tree’s health.

I have all the tools necessary to do the dig and I’m going to go ahead and assume there is a quite large tap root, so I know collection might not be easy, but I definitely want to do the right prep work if any is needed to make it a successful collection.

Picture of the Elm is shown below and two possible trunk chip options shown in the other. Thanks in advance, everyone!

 

[Mikecheck123]

I wouldn't do either of those things for an elm.

The root pruning thing is useful for species that are harder to collect. So you give them time to adapt to a smaller root area before subjecting them to the shock of collection. But all elms are really tough and thus much easier to collect.

Also, elms grow really quickly, and so you'll want to keep an eye on the branches to make sure they get wired appropriately early on before becoming too straight and thick. So being out in the woods isn't very ideal for that.

 

[Mikecheck123]

I’m going to go ahead and assume there is a quite large tap root

Good to be prepared. The #1 thing is to dig an actual trench around the tree so that you can get underneath and start cutting the tap root(s).

The completely wrong way to do it is to just cut a single circular slit around the tree and then start prying it up. Not gonna happen without lots of cussing and frustration and trauma to the tree.

 

[SmallTreeGuy]

Great! Thanks for the reply. My parents have TONS of elms in their woods but this is the only only one with any significant movement in it. I thought it could be a special tree to me since it came from my parents’ land and in a forest I used to play a lot in growing up.

Any idea of what I should expect in terms of the size of the root ball/or the amount of roots necessary to sustain the tree after collection? Obviously I want to keep as many feeder roots as possible, but in terms of difficulty of collection, any idea what I might expect?

 

[SmallTreeGuy]

Good to be prepared. The #1 thing is to dig an actual trench around the tree so that you can get underneath and start cutting the tap root(s).

The completely wrong way to do it is to just cut a single circular slit around the tree and then start prying it up. Not gonna happen without lots of cussing and frustration and trauma to the tree.

Haha definitely agree! A trench it shall be! I’m fully prepared to be exhausted after. The future payoff for me would be worth it! Lol

 

[rockm]

Since you're in Dallas, I'd bet this is a cedar elm. Very easy to collect at the beginning of spring just before bud burst.

I've collected a few over the years. They can take a lot of abuse. Dig them ALL AT ONCE. Do not trunk chop and let it sit for a year or two. That will weaken and kill the tree. Been there done that. Leaving in position takes away whatever advantage the tree had in competition with it neighbors. It will be overshadowed by the growth other trees push in the absence of its trunk.

Best way to collect them is to measure about six inches out from the main trunk, and start sawing roots all the way around the tree (Do not top it at this point). I use only a "pull" pruning saw and a hand trowel to dig up trees. Shovels are mostly useless. A reciprocating battery operated sawzall or equivalent makes this easy and almost effortless (bring replacement blades).

Keep sawing roots as you move soil away from them to a depth of about six to eight inches. Try to keep some feeder roots if you can, but it's not really all that necessary. Once you can move the trunk up on one side, start working to sever the heavier tap roots under the tree. That can be a lot of work if you don't have assistance in holding the trunk up. You can use the trunk for leverage (which is why you don't top it until after you've finished with the roots).

Once the roots are mostly finished and you don't require all that leverage from the trunk, sever it AT LEAST SIX INCHES ABOVE where you see the final design. That extra space will allow for more apical buds and the resulting choices for an apical branch down the road. SEAL ALL TRUNK CUTS. Leave root cuts exposed making sure the cuts face downward.

With that you can take the tree home. Once there, take a hose to the root mass. Wash off ALL the old field soil. Have a container at the ready that can accommodate the root mass (you can shorten roots that need it at this time with no issues). WIRE THE TREE INTO THE CONTAINER. This is a critical step, as newly collected trees can be very unstable for a long time as their roots regenerate. Any movement in the coming months, can rub new roots off and complicate recovery. That happens underneath the bonsai soil, so don't think the soil you're dumping on it will keep it stable.

Back fill the container with regular bonsai soil. Work it into the root mass (there probably isn't going to be much of one anyway, more likely mostly roots stubs, but there could be a few smaller feeder roots in there as well). Submerge the filled pot into a tub of water (regular water, skip the Superthrive or whatever snake oil you're contemplating adding to it to "stimulate" roots. More than likely, whatever you're adding can suppress root growth. Cedar elm do not need anything to recover). Wait until the bubbles stop rising from the water and the soil is saturated. Lift it out and Set the pot up off the ground to avoid rainwater splashing into it and in a place that's out of the sun. Keep the soil moist (not soggy). Don't fuss with it.

You should see new growth in a couple of weeks. It will show up as small green knobs in cracks between bark plates. Those will eventually push into new shoots (reddish in color at first, then green). This doesn't necessarily mean the tree is going to make it however. Older cedar elms can push new growth from reserves and momentum, only to flag or fail after they push shoots with three or four leaves. Typically they will "pause" after that initial push and seem to wait a couple of weeks until they start growing again. That second flush can signify they've got substantial roots under them.

 

[BobbyLane]

I havnt read the thread, but nice matured bark on those!

 

[SmallTreeGuy]

Since you're in Dallas, I'd bet this is a cedar elm. Very easy to collect at the beginning of spring just before bud burst.

I've collected a few over the years. They can take a lot of abuse. Dig them ALL AT ONCE. Do not trunk chop and let it sit for a year or two. That will weaken and kill the tree. Been there done that. Leaving in position takes away whatever advantage the tree had in competition with it neighbors. It will be overshadowed by the growth other trees push in the absence of its trunk.

Best way to collect them is to measure about six inches out from the main trunk, and start sawing roots all the way around the tree (Do not top it at this point). I use only a "pull" pruning saw and a hand trowel to dig up trees. Shovels are mostly useless. A reciprocating battery operated sawzall or equivalent makes this easy and almost effortless (bring replacement blades).

Keep sawing roots as you move soil away from them to a depth of about six to eight inches. Try to keep some feeder roots if you can, but it's not really all that necessary. Once you can move the trunk up on one side, start working to sever the heavier tap roots under the tree. That can be a lot of work if you don't have assistance in holding the trunk up. You can use the trunk for leverage (which is why you don't top it until after you've finished with the roots).

Once the roots are mostly finished and you don't require all that leverage from the trunk, sever it AT LEAST SIX INCHES ABOVE where you see the final design. That extra space will allow for more apical buds and the resulting choices for an apical branch down the road. SEAL ALL TRUNK CUTS. Leave root cuts exposed making sure the cuts face downward.

With that you can take the tree home. Once there, take a hose to the root mass. Wash off ALL the old field soil. Have a container at the ready that can accommodate the root mass (you can shorten roots that need it at this time with no issues). WIRE THE TREE INTO THE CONTAINER. This is a critical step, as newly collected trees can be very unstable for a long time as their roots regenerate. Any movement in the coming months, can rub new roots off and complicate recovery. That happens underneath the bonsai soil, so don't think the soil you're dumping on it will keep it stable.

Back fill the container with regular bonsai soil. Work it into the root mass (there probably isn't going to be much of one anyway, more likely mostly roots stubs, but there could be a few smaller feeder roots in there as well). Submerge the filled pot into a tub of water (regular water, skip the Superthrive or whatever snake oil you're contemplating adding to it to "stimulate" roots. More than likely, whatever you're adding can suppress root growth. Cedar elm do not need anything to recover). Wait until the bubbles stop rising from the water and the soil is saturated. Lift it out and Set the pot up off the ground to avoid rainwater splashing into it and in a place that's out of the sun. Keep the soil moist (not soggy). Don't fuss with it.

You should see new growth in a couple of weeks. It will show up as small green knobs in cracks between bark plates. Those will eventually push into new shoots (reddish in color at first, then green). This doesn't necessarily mean the tree is going to make it however. Older cedar elms can push new growth from reserves and momentum, only to flag or fail after they push shoots with three or four leaves. Typically they will "pause" after that initial push and seem to wait a couple of weeks until they start growing again. That second flush can signify they've got substantial roots under them.

Oh wow! Your comment is gold to me! I’ve got to take some time to digest all of the info. Thank you so, so much for taking the time to write such a detailed and thorough response. Any question I may have had you answered. I will digest this and memorize this and plan my next moves with preparations and getting all the supplies I need beforehand.

Again, thank you!