elm disease identification

erb.75

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Anyone know what this is? I was going to try to use Phyton 35 on it and see if that takes care of it. It's been on several small shoots (that are now removed) and I saw this today. The elm is a chinese elm (although others have claimed it might be an american elm).
 

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erb.75

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Here are two elms (only one has the problem), feel free to comment on them as well! they grow like weeds! I've pruned them back 3x already this year I think
 

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Here are two elms (only one has the problem), feel free to comment on them as well! they grow like weeds! I've pruned them back 3x already this year I think
You may already know this, but if you keep pruning and pruning elms, they will throw weak leggy growth with limited back-budding.

If you are still in early development, the best method is to let your elms grow unabated in the Spring until they pause and their growth hardens. You may have some new branches 12" long or longer. Wait about two or three weeks after the growth hardens, but before the second flush of growth starts to pop. Then cut back ALL growth to the first leaf pair on all branches. This will not only create much shorter internodes with ramification starting close to the trunk of the tree, but you will get back-budding everywhere - including all over the trunk. On strong elms, and in long growing climates, you can do this twice per summer. The key is to not TOUCH the tree while it is throwing new growth, and letting it "rest" for a few weeks before you prune. If you keep nibbling away at it, the tree never gets the chance to accumulate the excess energy needed for heavy rebudding.

/EDIT Let me add this is for a elm that you are developing branching and ramification on. If you are still working on trunk caliper let it grow unabated! With elms you can wait until the trunk is the proper thickness, and then prune back all branches flush to the trunk and you will get new buds popping everywhere on old bark and you can develop your final thinner branching from those.
 
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As far as your disease goes, I can't say I have seen anything like it. If I were you, I would assume it was some kind of fungus, and treat accordingly. It does not appear to be having much of an impact on your tree - even the leaf that it is on does not appear to be visibly impacted. But I would treat regardless.
 
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erb.75

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You may already know this, but if you keep pruning and pruning elms, they will throw weak leggy growth with limited back-budding.

If you are still in early development, the best method is to let your elms grow unabated in the Spring until they pause and their growth hardens. You may have some new branches 12" long or longer. Wait about two or three weeks after the growth hardens, but before the second flush of growth starts to pop. Then cut back ALL growth to the first leaf pair on all branches. This will not only create much shorter internodes with ramification starting close to the trunk of the tree, but you will get back-budding everywhere - including all over the trunk. On strong elms, and in long growing climates, you can do this twice per summer. The key is to not TOUCH the tree while it is throwing new growth, and letting it "rest" for a few weeks before you prune. If you keep nibbling away at it, the tree never gets the chance to accumulate the excess energy needed for heavy rebudding.

/EDIT Let me add this is for a elm that you are developing branching and ramification on. If you are still working on trunk caliper let it grow unabated! With elms you can wait until the trunk is the proper thickness, and then prune back all branches flush to the trunk and you will get new buds popping everywhere on old bark and you can develop your final thinner branching from those.
definately not working on trunk thickness...that guy is like 3 inches and will make a nice fat shohin....Yes, I agree that I need to let the elm grow out. It has grown to about 2 feet on most of the branches multiple times, so I figured it was OK. Having a weird growing season this year with some trees that woke up in Feb.
 

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definately not working on trunk thickness...that guy is like 3 inches and will make a nice fat shohin....Yes, I agree that I need to let the elm grow out. It has grown to about 2 feet on most of the branches multiple times, so I figured it was OK. Having a weird growing season this year with some trees that woke up in Feb.
Thats when they are supposed to wake up.
 

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Thats when they are supposed to wake up.
My Chinese elms are just about the first things to pop buds. Like clockwork - 2nd week of February.

It's not just about letting the tree throw a long shoots. You have to let it extend, extend, extend... until it stops. Then the leaves harden. Then it sits there for about six weeks doing nothing (absorbing photosynthetic energy). And then, starting with the tips of the strongest branches, you will see it is getting ready to push buds again - while there is no sign of bud push on interior or weaker branches. BEFORE it pushes buds again, you reduce the branches back to two buds. The timing is really important because you have to let the tree rest and accumulate strength before you prune it. Energy is generated by photosynthetic mass. If you just prune a branch whenever it gets long, the tree has no chance to benefit from all of the growth. It pushes growth... prune. Then it pushes growth... prune. And each time the growth gets progressively weaker and more spindly and more localized to just the primary branches and you may experience branch die-back or weakness in the interior or lower branches.

The other benefit from pruning back to two leaves is that it forces the tree to push two opposing buds - doubling your ramification each time. Do this twice a summer, and at the end of two years you have 16x as many branches as you started with. 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, etc. And of course, by the time you have 16x as many branches, the energy of the tree is being split 16x as many ways, so you get much less shoot extension and much shorter internodes (and smaller leaves) each time you do this.
 
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Smoke

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maybe in Fresno!
No, actually Feb. is considered late winter, only couple weeks till spring March 21. You just happen to live where the climate is not conducive to growing bonsai on a normal timetable. Ha ha, your loss.....
 

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Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but just trying to share my experience of not learning how to leave my elms alone in the Spring :) For years I would trim away the new growth when it got unsightly and long - not letting the tree recover first.

When you let the tree rest before you prune away the Spring growth, this is the kind of budding you should see on your Chinese elms. Because I pruned all my elms a couple of weeks ago, I can share quite a few examples :) The trees are all wet because my automatic sprinkler just went off.

bud1.jpg

bud2.jpg

bud3.jpg

Apologies for the scary last image - I have an air layer going on right above. The last tree (a yatsufusa) isn't really a pre-bonsai, I am using it for propagation, so you could argue some of that budding is due to the air-layer process.
 

erb.75

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My Chinese elms are just about the first things to pop buds. Like clockwork - 2nd week of February.

It's not just about letting the tree throw a long shoots. You have to let it extend, extend, extend... until it stops. Then the leaves harden. Then it sits there for about six weeks doing nothing (absorbing photosynthetic energy). And then, starting with the tips of the strongest branches, you will see it is getting ready to push buds again - while there is no sign of bud push on interior or weaker branches. BEFORE it pushes buds again, you reduce the branches back to two buds. The timing is really important because you have to let the tree rest and accumulate strength before you prune it. Energy is generated by photosynthetic mass. If you just prune a branch whenever it gets long, the tree has no chance to benefit from all of the growth. It pushes growth... prune. Then it pushes growth... prune. And each time the growth gets progressively weaker and more spindly and more localized to just the primary branches and you may experience branch die-back or weakness in the interior or lower branches.

The other benefit from pruning back to two leaves is that it forces the tree to push two opposing buds - doubling your ramification each time. Do this twice a summer, and at the end of two years you have 16x as many branches as you started with. 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, etc. And of course, by the time you have 16x as many branches, the energy of the tree is being split 16x as many ways, so you get much less shoot extension and much shorter internodes (and smaller leaves) each time you do this.
very helpful. I do let the tree rest for a bit before I prune again, but I might give your method a try and wait until I see buds wanting to grow again....but question, if you wait that long...won't the branches thicken up quite a bit?
 

erb.75

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Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but just trying to share my experience of not learning how to leave my elms alone in the Spring :) For years I would trim away the new growth when it got unsightly and long - not letting the tree recover first.

When you let the tree rest before you prune away the Spring growth, this is the kind of budding you should see on your Chinese elms. Because I pruned all my elms a couple of weeks ago, I can share quite a few examples :) The trees are all wet because my automatic sprinkler just went off.

View attachment 147710

View attachment 147711

View attachment 147712

Apologies for the scary last image - I have an air layer going on right above. The last tree (a yatsufusa) isn't really a pre-bonsai, I am using it for propagation, so you could argue some of that budding is due to the air-layer process.
yep, that's what mine have looked like...gotta love chinese elms with all the back budding non-stop!
 

erb.75

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No, actually Feb. is considered late winter, only couple weeks till spring March 21. You just happen to live where the climate is not conducive to growing bonsai on a normal timetable. Ha ha, your loss.....
"No, actually Feb. is considered late winter, only couple weeks till spring March 21"

did I say this wasn't true? What's the "no" about? Trees don't normally start sending out leaves in late winter. not in my area. And sure, I know that other people have a longer growing season than I do. Hawaii has a longer growing season than anyone, but they can't grow trees that need cold dormancy very easily now can they :)

"Ha ha, your loss....." Oh burn! you got me!
 

erb.75

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Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but just trying to share my experience of not learning how to leave my elms alone in the Spring :) For years I would trim away the new growth when it got unsightly and long - not letting the tree recover first.

When you let the tree rest before you prune away the Spring growth, this is the kind of budding you should see on your Chinese elms. Because I pruned all my elms a couple of weeks ago, I can share quite a few examples :) The trees are all wet because my automatic sprinkler just went off.

View attachment 147710

View attachment 147711

View attachment 147712

Apologies for the scary last image - I have an air layer going on right above. The last tree (a yatsufusa) isn't really a pre-bonsai, I am using it for propagation, so you could argue some of that budding is due to the air-layer process.
also, thank you for being very detailed. very good!
 
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