Elm yamadori help!

[ForrestGump]

Hey I was just wondering if right now would be possible to uproot an Elm. There is a few nice ones growing in a northern michigan forest, but i wont have access in the spring. Is there a good way to do this?

Also, if i transplant one of these trees into a pot, Can i do a trunk chop right away for convenience, or will that be too much?

 

[aml1014]

If now is your only chance, GO GET THEM!!! Elms are unbelievably rugged trees and I've only had 1 die on me and that's because I forgot to water it
I collect elms pretty much any time of year with great success. If you do go for it, get as much roots as possible and do not bare root the tree like you would with a spring collection, also chop the tree to the desired height.

Good luck!

Aaron

 

[ForrestGump]

Thank you! Going tree hunting lol

 

[ForrestGump]

One more question, could I chop below any branches?

 

[sorce]

If leave a couple branches with leaves...

If you chop it way down...
It'll spend till fall pushing new buds and growth that will Probly die.

Keep as much root as you can.
Keep half as much foliage.

That's what I'd do.

Sorce

 

[ForrestGump]

Sounds good!

 

[M. Frary]

If now is your only chance, GO GET THEM!!! Elms are unbelievably rugged trees and I've only had 1 die on me and that's because I forgot to water it
I collect elms pretty much any time of year with great success. If you do go for it, get as much roots as possible and do not bare root the tree like you would with a spring collection, also chop the tree to the desired height.

Good luck!

Aaron

Michigan winters are different than New Mexico winters. It's highly possible the tree won't live through the winter. It would need special care throughout the cold.
I don't bother digging trees up in the fall here. A lot of work for a stump that won't go anyplace in the spring. American and Siberia elms in good health need protection from the cold here. Lots of protection. People that are from warmer states just don't get what winter really is.
Find some to dig in the spring. There are lots of elms in Michigan. Don't waste your time digging it up now. It will most likely die. Been there done that. Really.
And digging in the spring you can do it right. Bareroot the thing,saw a bunch of roots off,put it in a colander and watch it grow.

 

[aml1014]

Michigan winters are different than New Mexico winters. It's highly possible the tree won't live through the winter. It would need special care throughout the cold.
I don't bother digging trees up in the fall here. A lot of work for a stump that won't go anyplace in the spring. American and Siberia elms in good health need protection from the cold here. Lots of protection. People that are from warmer states just don't get what winter really is.
Find some to dig in the spring. There are lots of elms in Michigan. Don't waste your time digging it up now. It will most likely die. Been there done that. Really.
And digging in the spring you can do it right. Bareroot the thing,saw a bunch of roots off,put it in a colander and watch it grow.

I do forget that you guys have regular negative temperatures lol plus I forgot to even look where he was from to be honest.

Aaron

 

[ForrestGump]

I'll wait til spring lol

 

[Tieball]

I think size can make a difference. How big, the trunk thickness at the soil level, are the trees you are collecting?

I've have my best luck in the spring, however, I have collected during 9 of 12 months. I skip collecting in December, January and February. American Elms I have are ground growing. I do not have any special protection while they are in the ground. Most are in a sunny, full southern exposure, area that gets the best of whatever nature sends in winter and any other season. I do not water in the winter at all....nature takes over completely. I do nothing with the trees in winter. Spring and summer collecting are best for me though because I can prune the roots hard and the Elm will bounce right back.

Attached are a couple of sprout progressions in one 2016 Michigan season. Collection of these sprouts was in early July 2016. The last photo is now...September 2016. Next season the sprouts will grow to about a 1/2" trunk diameter...and continue growing from there each year. You're likely collecting a tree much larger...this just shows how resilient a small sprout can be when pulled from the ground...and watered. The last photo is a sprout like these after about 6 years. The bark is beginning to rough up and the growth is significant each year....no special protection or soil...just Michigan sandy soil. So...if you see some sprouts...and have interest....take them with you. I'll dig out a couple photos of what one of these sprouts looks like after 6-7 years.

 

[Tieball]

Here's what happens to an American Elm sprout after moving it from a small plastic starter pot to the ground....and then photographed 6-7 years later. The first photo is a cut back in April 2016. The tree was about 7' tall. The second photo is the growth at September 2016 after that cut back. In 2017 the trunk should be about 2.5". The cuts will roll over almost all the way during the summer of 2017.

Once in the open ground I plant on floor tiles and dig/prune the roots around the tile each spring...just with a shovel into the ground. After 4 years....I pull the trees up and hard prune the roots back closer to the trunk. There is always plenty of roots. I remove about 2/3 of the root mass when pulled out. So...when you are collecting you can usually remove a substantial amount of rooting with an issue. But...the trees need water/moist-ground in the first 2-3 weeks.

So....if collecting big trees doesn't work out....collect the smaller trees as they turn big quickly in the ground and you have good root control. Just a thought.

 

[Random User]

Hi Forest,

You probably know most of this, but I'll say it anyway...

American elm don't enter dormancy like other trees do, they simply keep growing the same as the summer months until their leaves are frost killed. (Thats why they stay green well into November at times). I'm north of the 49th parallel and west of you and I "like" to wait until there is a severe killing frost to remove American elm under the circumstances that you are describing. (Usually the first week or so into November)

If the area is close enough to you to run back and forth, I would take a battery operated saws-all and cut around the roots about 8-10" 'round from the base. This will sever the roots, and initiate root growth. I like to water them once a week if I can to promote as much root growth as possible. Leave the trunk (and tap root) intact (and alone) until you are ready to remove the tree.

When I am ready to remove the tree, I dig it out, then cut the trunk off *close to the finished size. (leaving the trunk cut last will help you when removing the tree from the ground)

I bare root the tree and plop it into the ground on top of a flat rock and water it in. You could even take some soil from the area the tree was removed if you believe that it might be helpful.

I have found that they will more easily throw shoots from the base of the tree come spring, so you have to rub these off to encourage budding high up near the trunk chop. But I would recommend leaving any new lower shoots alone once you have a few up where you want them. (if you leave these for one season they should easily heal over without being much of a problem.

*Now this might be something that most people DON"T do, or don't see any use in doing, but in the spring a week or two before bud-break I take a 4" angle grinder with a 80 grit sanding disk on it and grind the top of the tree down to it's final size... and depending on where the buds break near the top, I have in the past, removed a bit more material once the buds begin to show. But I have never gone closer than 5/8" of the bud for fear of killing it... perhaps someone else has, and they could chime in... I just don't want to kill off a precious bud when the tree should be able to grow over this bit of wood. For the first year I simply apply time release fertilizer and water... the tree will dictate what it can handle after that.

HOWEVER, before anyone jumps all over me, I would not remove any tree, in any season, if I could do it in the spring before bud-break; just like Walter Pall recommends. (But, like Timbal described, they can be taken in other seasons too), Personally, I just think it's riskier for the tree's health and the first consideration should be for the tree...

I find it's cooler to dig in November without any insects to pester you, however, one should always wear hunter red or orange or some booze-fuelled bear hunter might just put an arrow in your took-kus as you root around wrestling with that tree you so lovingly want!... AND ALWAYS, ask for permission because just the time that you don't think anyone will care, or that anyone is watching, is just the time when your pleasant pastime turns into a pain-in-the-neck.

If you don't "have" to take the tree home, you could move it 10' away from where it was growing and plop it onto a flat rock... just bear in mind that you will have to water it regularly (or have a certainty that it will get water) until the roots take hold during the next season.

One last caution about American Elms though... the bark will easily peel away damaging your tree. I ALWAYS cut around the tree (through the bark into the wood) with a hand saw before cutting it off above this mark. I then take my battery operated 4" angle grinder with the 80 grit sanding disc and clean up the tree to (and past) the "hand sawn" area. I say "past because a clean cut will always heal better and most saws that I use during this procedure don't cut cleanly, the sanding disc does a nice job.

Finally, no matter how careful you are and no matter how certain you are that you can cut them without doing the "safety cut" first, I would highly recommend that you never try... been there, done that, paid the price!

 

[M. Frary]

I collect them all in one shot in spring. Cut to height. Cut the tap root off. Cut the lateral roots about 6 to 8 inches from the base . Take it home. Wash all the dirt off and trim any roots that are in the way of cramming it into a colander.
I've found that they sprout right out of the chop so I cut it to the desired height before I start digging.

 

[aml1014]

I collect them all in one shot in spring. Cut to height. Cut the tap root off. Cut the lateral roots about 6 to 8 inches from the base . Take it home. Wash all the dirt off and trim any roots that are in the way of cramming it into a colander.
I've found that they sprout right out of the chop so I cut it to the desired height before I start digging.

Basically my procedure aswell. I actually think I started doing this when I read a thread you started on collecting.

Aaron

 

[Random User]

The prime reason he asked the question about a late summer/fall harvest is that he can't get to them in the spring.

 

[Random User]

Forrest:

If there are any saplings close by and you want a smaller project (about 1" dia. at the base), I have recently begun to leave the tap root longish in the field. I have some disks from an old disker (several diskers actually, because I have various sizes) and I thread the taproot through the centre hole, place some wood scraps along side it, and secure the taproot from the bottom with a hose clamp. This way, the disc will shed excess water, the disc will provide whatever trace iron the American elm might need, and as the tree grows it will automatically cut the taproot from the trees system as it grows (choking it off) (and you don't have to support the tree on the top side, if you leave enough to secure in the ground beneath the disc... if ya get what I'm mean'n)... my thinking is that when I dig the tree next time, I'll just have to remove the hose clamp and then shave the tap root off with my angle grinder and the year or two of top root growth should be spread evenly across the top of the disc... of course, I won't know how well this will work until I dig the trees that I've done this with; probably in the spring of '18... and of course, some are bound to work better than others.

 

[M. Frary]

The prime reason he asked the question about a late summer/fall harvest is that he can't get to them in the spring.

I know. I'm responding to your post. You seem to have problems collecting them. I posted how I do it just to show that all of the hoops you jump through to collect an elm tree aren't necessary. Chop 'em and dig 'em all in one go. Cut that tap root flat at that time. Pop it into a bucket or colander and watch it grow.

 

[Random User]

The only problem I have is you stepping on my posts.

 

[M. Frary]

The only problem I have is you stepping on my posts.

That's too bad. I'm trying to help here. But you got all of this weird stuff going on. What with clamps and grinders and discs and trace iron and whatever else.
You might want to get used to it.

 

[Random User]

I don't need your help, and I never asked for it. If you don't like how I do things, you're very welcome to ignore me because thats what I intend on doing with you.