Elms growing on side of ravine

[travislivid]

I found a great little ravine with a good deal of cedar elms growing on the walls in pretty loose limestone gravel. Here is a pic of one for reference. Just giving some of these a wiggle and I am pretty sure I can get a great deal of root by just breaking them out with my small pick axe. Basically crumbling away the soil they are clinging to. Super easy collection. This one has about a 3" trunk and is only a few feet tall but there were better ones. This one has a very large root that runs down over a rock and into soil below. Too big I think for root over rock. Maybe the large root could be removed and some carving?
My question is what can be done with material growing on a vertical wall? I have seen some plantings with a ladder system that could be really nice. But what would I need to do for aftercare/training pot?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Elms are tough, especially if the work is done at the right time of year (spring). Also, remember elms tend to throw out few, very heavy roots that will run for yards before ramifying (as shown!). It will be important to get as much of the big root as possible, then work them back over time, replacing it with feeder roots close to/from the trunk.

 

[travislivid]

I learned all about that. I am just scouting right now. Traced along the roots growing into the side of this ravine and I can follow them quite easily and get a lot of them. The question is how to set up the tree once it is out or if it is worth it. The roots are all growing behind the tree. Anyone collect like this?

 

[gergwebber]

I learned all about that. I am just scouting right now. Traced along the roots growing into the side of this ravine and I can follow them quite easily and get a lot of them. The question is how to set up the tree once it is out or if it is worth it. The roots are all growing behind the tree. Anyone collect like this?

However the roots are growing, you will need to take as much as you can get, plant in a good loose media, and slowly (over consecutive years,) chase them back to the trunk. First year will be all about recovery.

Maybe the next, or more likely the following year, you may be in a position to air layer a whole new set of roots. there are several progresions here about that: sorry, one of the big guys may help out, I can never find the thread I am looking for(is it in maples or advanced topics???)

I would make a big linear cedar box out of fence boards, or tupperware tubs and collect a long root with the most feeder roots on it. this would be the basis for developing a new, but temporary root system. Around the base where you have to cut major roots, apply rooting hormone and hope for new roots in the mean time. With Elm, you should have lots of luck.

 

[Poink88]

It will be important to get as much of the big root as possible, then work them back over time, replacing it with feeder roots close to/from the trunk.

My methodology is the reverse. Unless there are fine/feeder roots that I need to keep further out, I chop the big roots down to the final length right away (at collection if possible).

My reasoning is that, I want any and all new growth at the right place ASAP. Same with big branches, I chop them as hard as I can.

I also believe that it is the best time since the tree is strongest at that time and chances or survival from a major shock is greatest. Not to mention that it will only go through it once and not multiple times.

This is just based on my logic and little experience.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

My methodology is the reverse. Unless there are fine/feeder roots that I need to keep further out, I chop the big roots down to the final length right away (at collection if possible).

My reasoning is that, I want any and all new growth at the right place ASAP. Same with big branches, I chop them as hard as I can.

I also believe that it is the best time since the tree is strongest at that time and chances or survival from a major shock is greatest. Not to mention that it will only go through it once and not multiple times.

This is just based on my logic and little experience.

So basically, do the reverse, except do the same...

Bottom line: collect without feeder roots = making a cutting. With elms, it can work, given the right timing and aftercare. Chances are improved when feeder roots are still attached...Just based on 18 years of collecting.

 

[rockm]

Cedar elms can take alot of punishment and can bounce back very quickly.

I've collected them in much the same way as Poink, drastic reduction at collection of the bigger roots and branches--however, the more feeder roots you can get close to the trunk, the better. Big thick roots that radiate out so far from the trunk probably means you ain't gonna get many feeders close in, but poke around a little beneath the tree and look for them on the bigger roots...

 

[Poink88]

So basically, do the reverse, except do the same...

LOL...yes I guess.

As Rockm mentioned, on Cedar elm, I found that if the main roots run long...they usually are really long w/o any feeder roots near the trunk. In such case, (for me) it is a waste to take as long a main root w/o feeder roots.

In the same situation with other species that are not as hardy, I would just walk away.

 

[travislivid]

Thanks bnuts. This one is somewhere in the middle of my list to collect in the spring. I have some good pointers here about what could be done with the roots. I will update the thread when/if this one is collected.

 

[edprocoat]

Travis, that tree has a 3 inch trunk? Man it sure looks bigger than that, maybe its just the picture as there is nothing for reference.

ed

 

[travislivid]

It is just about a half inch bigger then a coke can (the bonsai universal object of reference). So maybe 3 1/2" at most. I have 2 bags I go out into the woods with. My dig bag (shovel, pick axe, etc. and scouting bag (camera, garden fork, bugspray etc) Thinking about adding an empty coke can to the scouting bag for just this purpose!

Here are some other pics i took of that one at the time.
Amazing how far over bare rock they go to get to some soil.
This thing is so loose I could have just pulled it off the rocks.

 

[jkd2572]

I would add a full coke can in case you get thirsty.

 

[travislivid]

Maybe a small red bull. Then the trunks would look HUGE!
When I was collecting last spring I took a gallon of water but the roots get more then I do. I started following rockm's advise and just remove the heavy clay at collection. Tree is happier and not so heavy of a haul. Just bare root and water them down in a bag with some sphagnum. Don't think they would like coke.