Encouraging back budding in pines

Cofga

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Yesterday I picked up an Austrian black pine (Pinus nigra). Before I start the pruning and pinching process I started searching for info on back budding in pines and, as with most subjects on the internet, got some opposing viewpoints. Some say they back bud readily while others say they only reluctantly back bud. I searched the forum for info on this and got nowhere so lets expand this to styling in general. The best source I found was as usual Harry Harrington’s bonsai4me.com website. He suggests major pruning in late summer-fall as the tree enters dormancy, and in spring. He suggested wiring be done in late summer-fall after the most active growth period so as not to create wire marks. His comments on back budding suggest it is most likely to occur after heavy pruning. One source said you should never remove more than 50% of pine foliage in one year and also never give the tree more than one major bit of work in an annual growth cycle. This all sounds a lot like his suggestions for spruce. So what are your experiences with pines in these areas?
 

M. Frary

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The one insult per year is true for pines as well as most coniferous trees.
If I were to get one of these trees I would do exactly to it that I do to my other pines. Mugo,Scots and Jack pine. All 2 needle pines.
I would cut the shoots off after July 4th but before August 15th which is the time for my area.
This is also the time for rootwork/repots and wiring.
Keeping it in full bright sun for as many hours and heavy fertilizing also promotes back budding.
 

River's Edge

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Yesterday I picked up an Austrian black pine (Pinus nigra). Before I start the pruning and pinching process I started searching for info on back budding in pines and, as with most subjects on the internet, got some opposing viewpoints. Some say they back bud readily while others say they only reluctantly back bud. I searched the forum for info on this and got nowhere so lets expand this to styling in general. The best source I found was as usual Harry Harrington’s bonsai4me.com website. He suggests major pruning in late summer-fall as the tree enters dormancy, and in spring. He suggested wiring be done in late summer-fall after the most active growth period so as not to create wire marks. His comments on back budding suggest it is most likely to occur after heavy pruning. One source said you should never remove more than 50% of pine foliage in one year and also never give the tree more than one major bit of work in an annual growth cycle. This all sounds a lot like his suggestions for spruce. So what are your experiences with pines in these areas?
I treat Austrian Black Pine in the same schedule as Japanese Black Pine. The only exception is the result from decandling. Austrian Black Pine are not as vigorous as my Japanese Black Pines and are more like a single flush Pine. They do respond to decandling but quite slowly and i would not do them each year like the JBP. I repot and do root work in late spring and try to finish by June 1st in my area. Wiring is done between November and March. Cut back is done in the late Fall, October, November.
 

MichaelS

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Cofga, post: 602001, member: 21282"]. He suggests major pruning in late summer-fall as the tree enters dormancy,
This is the best way for forcing back budding in most pines in my experience. The tree must be very healthy and vigorous though. It's best not to de-candle or prune much in the spring before. The pruning should not be done too late but not too early so the new buds break into growth.
 

Vance Wood

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Just make sure that you are following all of the instructions as pointed out and the sources that provided those instructions if and when it all goes wrong, you blame the right people. There are many ways to skin a cat from surgical to tossing into a wood chipper. Not every technique you can find will work with all trees. The suggestion that pruning in late summer-fall encourages back budding will work on some trees but not all of them. Austrian Black Pine is a strange bird and does not respond the same way a Japanese Black Pine does. I would suggest you talk to someone who is actually familiar with the tree. I find no fault in you asking for proof from anyone who claims authority and experience with the tree. Any body can search the internet or read a book.
 

A. Gorilla

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The one insult per year is true for pines as well as most coniferous trees.
If I were to get one of these trees I would do exactly to it that I do to my other pines. Mugo,Scots and Jack pine. All 2 needle pines.
I would cut the shoots off after July 4th but before August 15th which is the time for my area.
This is also the time for rootwork/repots and wiring.
Keeping it in full bright sun for as many hours and heavy fertilizing also promotes back budding.
I'm going on my third year with one, and I agree with Frary here. I seem to be getting every indication that it should be treated simply as a single flush pine, as opposed to some quasi-JPB. I follow Ryan Neil's protocol on such things. For back budding, aggressive growth and fertilizer all year, and then cut the new growth down to 2 needle pairs in mid July-ish (for my climate). The new buds for next year develop through the first frost of October. So far so good.
 

Vance Wood

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The one insult per year is true for pines as well as most coniferous trees. This is to some extent is an old wives tale, and in many cases not true. I will not however delve into this area any deeper than just enough to let you know it is possible to do a lot of things if done correctly at the right time of year.
 

A. Gorilla

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Just make sure that you are following all of the instructions as pointed out and the sources that provided those instructions if and when it all goes wrong, you blame the right people.
Tee hee.
 

M. Frary

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The one insult per year is true for pines as well as most coniferous trees. This is to some extent is an old wives tale, and in many cases not true. I will not however delve into this area any deeper than just enough to let you know it is possible to do a lot of things if done correctly at the right time of year.
I was giving the cautious answer.
 

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