End of season update on some spring collections - Piñon Pine

[Hartinez]

I’ve have NEVER had luck in the collection of piñon pine. I’ve collected at least half a dozen over the years and they have all withered and died. I’ve tried spring fall and summer. It had been a few years since I last tried and I decided to give a few smaller specimen a try this spring. On my property there is an abundance. With quite a few spectacular specimen available. Practicing on smaller trees will be best before I start digging trees I will regret killing. This years collections have done GREAT. And although they are small, they both have relatively excellent bark character. I collected 4 and 2 have survived. The two that died were either already in poor health or had the bulk of the root ball ripped from its base at collection. @Colorado collected one with me around the same time same area and his also appears to do great. Post a pic of your so inclined TJ. Inless your saving it for another thread.

while I can’t say for certain why these two have pushed and others haven’t without having controls or side by side comparisons here are my thoughts on the success.

timing was right. Just as new candles were pushing


the soil stayed compact and intact at collection. Past trees have been in loose sandy soil that crumbles immediately at collection ripping major sections of fine feeder roots.

planting in 100% pumice with little to no disturbance of field soil collected.

the taller thinner tree is one I think can be pretty great as a more elegant upright tree. Trick will be wether I can get significant bends in the trunk or if I need to. Wrapping raffia around that craggy bark may be a disaster for its appearance.

 

[Hartinez]

Here’s the smaller one that has budded adventitously all over. May not be anything spectacular but will at least afford me the opportunity to practice on the species.

 

[Hartinez]

Here’s the larger one in 360

 

[Colorado]

Glad to see your piñon are thriving, Danny! Here are a few photos of the one we collected here in my garden:






Backbudding has been prolific. It has also put on strong new terminal buds. I think you hit the nail on the head that we hit the timing just right for success on these.

This one is planted in 100% pumice, 1/8” to 3/8” particle size. The rootball was pretty large and intact.

The bark on this tree is unreal! One of my favorite trees in the garden, for sure

And, just for the record, @Hartinez is an excellent and skilled collector. I learned a lot from him and have lots left to learn!

 

[Colorado Josh]

Looks good! When did you guys collect? What was the weather leading up to? What kind of soil? We're any collected from rock pockets?

I have a lot of pinon where I live , and have failed miserably everytime I attempt to collect.

 

[Flowerhouse]

What was the weather leading up to? What kind of soil? We're any collected from rock pockets?

Mine was collected in Park County, CO in 2020. It was in a tiny rock pocket getting water runoff from the hill above. The taproot was punk and there was sphagnum around the little tree. The soil was decomposed pine duff and bits from the granite it was growing in.



I collected in August when new growth was hardened and new buds were set. This pic is about 1 year post collection.

 

[Colorado]

We collected on May 10. No clue about the weather leading up to it but it was hot as hell that day - I remember that much what a fun time though. Nice trees and great company!

 

[Hartinez]

Looks good! When did you guys collect? What was the weather leading up to? What kind of soil? We're any collected from rock pockets?

I have a lot of pinon where I live , and have failed miserably everytime I attempt to collect.

Similar to @Flowerhouse houses experience, the bulk of the trees growing around my property are growing in decomposed pine duff and caliche (a thick clay like soil). The two combine for a clumpy soil that Stays well intact when digging. When digging them, the root ball around the base has to be as immobile as humanly possible. Along the thick chunky roots are tiny, and I mean tiny feeder roots. When the tap root is cut, it’s my belief the tree survives solely on these little roots. Making sure the soil does not rip away taking the little roots with it is crucial. On One of the trees I collected I was able to get a very solid root ball without movement. Though when I went to pick it up to put it in my van after hiking it back, I made the mistake of grabbing the tree from the trunk. Big time rookie mistake. The root ball loosened significantly and subsequently I lost that tree. Todd Schlafer puts his piñon in pumice grow beds with heat coil in the pumice, to help those tiny feeder roots along.

 

[Hartinez]

Glad to see your piñon are thriving, Danny! Here are a few photos of the one we collected here in my garden:

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Backbudding has been prolific. It has also put on strong new terminal buds. I think you hit the nail on the head that we hit the timing just right for success on these.

This one is planted in 100% pumice, 1/8” to 3/8” particle size. The rootball was pretty large and intact.

The bark on this tree is unreal! One of my favorite trees in the garden, for sure

And, just for the record, @Hartinez is an excellent and skilled collector. I learned a lot from him and have lots left to learn!

Your speaking too highly of me TJ! I’m getting better but I need work!

 

[ShadyStump]

Looks good! When did you guys collect? What was the weather leading up to? What kind of soil? We're any collected from rock pockets?

I have a lot of pinon where I live , and have failed miserably everytime I attempt to collect.

Same here. It's my favorite tree, and thus accounts for most of my losses. September collecting has shown my best luck so far, but that's not saying much. I have a good feeling about a roadside find last month, dug out of soft clayey soil, great curves. Issue is was essentially bare rooted twice. Once in the digging- the soil was so soft it just dropped away- and again while potting. Good part about that was I was able to mix that soil with some from another dig less than an hour before that lost too much root. That stuff was all pine duff, and SO thick with myco. The two combined to make a fairly loose and we'll draining soil that doesn't stay too wet.
Found the jackpot sit nearby, and hoping to have another go in spring.

 

[Hartinez]

Same here. It's my favorite tree, and thus accounts for most of my losses. September collecting has shown my best luck so far, but that's not saying much. I have a good feeling about a roadside find last month, dug out of soft clayey soil, great curves. Issue is was essentially bare rooted twice. Once in the digging- the soil was so soft it just dropped away- and again while potting. Good part about that was I was able to mix that soil with some from another dig less than an hour before that lost too much root. That stuff was all pine duff, and SO thick with myco. The two combined to make a fairly loose and we'll draining soil that doesn't stay too wet.
Found the jackpot sit nearby, and hoping to have another go in spring.

I think this is the problem though. All of my other piñon collections up to this point had soil that dropped away at collection. They all failed. I’m convinced that you've got to get a mass of soil that stays intact for at least a full year, maybe 2.

 

[ShadyStump]

I think this is the problem though. All of my other piñon collections up to this point had soil that dropped away at collection. They all failed. I’m convinced that you've got to get a mass of soil that stays intact for at least a full year, maybe 2.

I believe you. Even so, this past spring I was able to do just that on a cute little shohin size one, and it didn't last half of summer. Was able to slip a shovel right under it and drop it in a pot with added substrate, roots mostly intact.
This latest one, I got most of the root, allot of native soil, and a nice wide pot. All other conditions are better, and it's been a month with no hard freezes yet, so it shouldn't be dormant. So far no noticable signs of significant stress. I'm also much better about watering now days.
Just moved so I need to wait until payday, but I want to get some bone meal or other phosphorus supplement for it. I know they don't like nitrogen much, so the feet I have isn't a good idea.

 

[Rocksnbonsai]

Glad to see your piñon are thriving, Danny! Here are a few photos of the one we collected here in my garden:

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Backbudding has been prolific. It has also put on strong new terminal buds. I think you hit the nail on the head that we hit the timing just right for success on these.

This one is planted in 100% pumice, 1/8” to 3/8” particle size. The rootball was pretty large and intact.

The bark on this tree is unreal! One of my favorite trees in the garden, for sure

And, just for the record, @Hartinez is an excellent and skilled collector. I learned a lot from him and have lots left to learn!

Hey Colorado. What time of year do you prune your pinon? Mine seems confused at to the time of year it is. here is a picture from today. He put out his fresh growth in the last month or so. Also style wise i have no idea what direction to take with him

 

[Hartinez]

 

[Flowerhouse]

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Nice! Candles here have not started to extend yet. We got snow last night.

 

[Hartinez]

Nice! Candles here have not started to extend yet. We got snow last night.

What a bummer! Mine have been pushing for a bit now. This is the first piñon collection survival so I’m pretty excited.

 

[Flowerhouse]

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My candles are extending, finally!! Only 2 months behind yours, and half as many rows of needles as yours.

Also, this little one is putting on 5 two-needle clumps this year. The transition from baby to adult foliage takes a while.

 

[Hartinez]

My candles are extending, finally!! Only 2 months behind yours, and half as many rows of needles as yours.
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Also, this little one is putting on 5 two-needle clumps this year. The transition from baby to adult foliage takes a while.
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Nice! Growth is growth!

 

[Hartinez]

Mine was doing so well I went ahead gave it an initial styling. Only removed a few branches completely un needed and left several that will eventually be cut. I didn’t want to remove too much at once. In particular the two lowest branches. Next spring will be year 2 in the pond basket so I will probs be repotting into an actual ceramic pot.

 

[Hartinez]

Basically this. We’ll see.