Equivalent Japanese climates

[PABonsai]

So, is there any sort map or resource that would help determine where in Japan our climate would equate to so we could find nurseries or places of similar growing condition to better understand tree care? Would we just look at latitude and elevation and call it equal?

Also, would this even be useful information?

 

[Warpig]

It would of course depend on the tree(s) in question. I dont think i fully understand what you are asking. To better grow trees as they are in Japan?

 

[Clicio]

Well, considering Japan is an island country with coastal areas and mountains in the whole central regions, and very lengthy (from Okinawa, almost tropical, to North Hokkaido, almost Siberian climate) I guess it will not be just a matter of latitude only.

 

[PABonsai]

To better grow trees as they are in Japan?

I'm thinking along the lines of determining ok my climate is similar, for example, Osaka (just an example). So then one can find what grows well in Osaka, what do they do there and how do they care for things there. It would help with timing, possibly techniques, etc. for me it would seem helpful determining what traditional bonsai trees do well where I live.

But also I wonder, is it even useful?

 

[leatherback]

But also I wonder, is it even useful?

I would make it a lot easier for you. Ask a local club member that has been at it for 20+ years which species do well. No need to look at Japan for that.
(Or you just get juniper. They do well everywhere it seems.)

 

[Clicio]

(Or you just get juniper. They do well everywhere it seems.)

IF kept outdoors, of course.

 

[Smoke]

"Similar" is huge!

 

[0soyoung]

So, is there any sort map or resource that would help determine where in Japan our climate would equate to so we could find nurseries or places of similar growing condition to better understand tree care? Would we just look at latitude and elevation and call it equal?

Also, would this even be useful information?

Plant Maps has an interactive map of USDA zones for Japan and for most countries of the world. But, if you are wanting to know the cold hardiness of various species, old garden books are great, but can also be easily found by Googling "USDA zone species" --> "USDA zone shimpaku juniper" for example.

Another important factor is how hot and how many hot days occur each year, the American Horticultural Society's heat zone map (Plant Maps does have these as interactive maps by state.. AFAIK, there is not equivalent for other countries. However, one can Google climates or weather averages to compare climates most anywhere.

Elevation is not a particularly useful.

 

[PABonsai]

"Similar" is huge!

True, good point.

 

[PABonsai]

Thanks @0soyoung. I'm going to look through these. I'm only really familiar with the USDA map that has our hardiness zones and my question sort of evolved from me wondering how that translated to traditional climates and species. I was assuming that if I could find one comparable climate in Japan that maybe I could research basically what they do there.

 

[GGB]

I have had this same question actually. Because, like others said, Japan is an island I'm not 100% certain they have an area that would match my humid continental weather, but I'd love to look just in case. Outside of that, I have personally had a lot of trouble finding much information on Japan in general. I can probably count the amount of pictures of "wild" japanese maples I've seen on one had. Even finding "native range maps" for trees growing throughtout Asia can be a little tough. Usually instead of a map I get something like .... "Southern China to eastern Japan" Probably a language/translation thing. Because I can usually find the info above (to some degree) for European countries

 

[bonsai45]

build a cold frame for 200 bucks
heat it for 50 bucks year
be any zone you want to be

keep it between 35-40F all winter, and you never have to think about zones again

 

[GGB]

Also cold hardiness on a USDA zone basis is helpful for knowing a tree's danger zone. But it's not going to tell you much outside of that. More temperate areas may appear to be zone 7 or 8 and in reality have a winter just as long and wet as ours. And if the trees that thrive there are hardy to zone 5 or 6 then knowing that area's USDA zone gives you almost nothing useful. Plus any combination of other variables

 

[rockm]

So, is there any sort map or resource that would help determine where in Japan our climate would equate to so we could find nurseries or places of similar growing condition to better understand tree care? Would we just look at latitude and elevation and call it equal?

Also, would this even be useful information?

this is useless false equivalency. You'd do better asking locally about the particular species you're interested in. "Wild" Japanese maples are of no real consequence to growers in Pa., other than USDA hardiness of those species and varieties, which are better documented in U.S. sources for U.S. consumption as mentioned before.

 

[PABonsai]

My question isn't really about simple cold hardiness though. It's more broad than that. Like you said @GGB I can find a hardiness rating on a plant, but that isn't even half of the story. I'm not looking for a list of cold hardy plants.

 

[coh]

My question isn't really about simple cold hardiness though. It's more broad than that. Like you said @GGB I can find a hardiness rating on a plant, but that isn't even half of the story. I'm not looking for a list of cold hardy plants.

You're really close to Nature's Way nursery, find out what grows well for them, how they winter, etc. Also as someone else suggested, talk to people in clubs near you. You could search for cities in Japan with similar climates, but even if you find one you'd then need to know if the Japanese nurseries are in the city, suburbs, etc. Conditions can vary a lot over relatively small areas especially when there is ocean and mountain nearby.

 

[sorce]

is it even useful

I believe it would be more detrimental than useful. Or if it is useful, a waste of time to figure out why. I'm glad you keep asking that important question.

People say to "take a zone off" to understand bonsai hardiness. Which is bullshit to me as is....
But the truth truth is....

Folks work trees so bad they can lose 3-5 zones. It only takes one Ill timed cut to do so.

So, for the information to be useful, we would have to first realize that the Japanese don't weaken trees by so many "zone losses". They work healthy trees.

I feel we don't have this basic understanding of a vigorous tree to relate the information on a useful manner. Or we are not honest enough with ourselves of the damage we've done to our trees.

Sorce

 

[AlainK]

is there any sort map or resource that would help determine where in Japan our climate would equate to

Believe it or not, climate changes. Fires in California after severe droughts (the sequioa are endengered), fires in Australia, "Acqua alta" in Venice (Italy), the worst floods since 1966, etc.

12 years ago, an olive tree wouldn't survive in the ground here : a friend of mine paid a hefty price for one (60 cm base -2 feet, from Spain) she put in her garden where it thrived for two years. It died the third winter.

Now in my street, there's one the same size in its sixth year.

I love Japanese maples. I sometimes repot them in June, when the weather is hot and rainy. It can be very dry some years, unlike in Japan when it's always very humid because it's an island and I live at least 350 km (200 miles) from the Atlantic.

So in this case, climate doesn't mean much, weather tendencies is the key.

 

[Anthony]

Alain,

around 1981, winter in Firenze, killed old olives,
It was 500 years or so, before, when Michelangelo was able to
build snow men.

When checking plants also check for soil mix.

Tamarinds hate Basalt / Granite soils from Canada.
Possibly too much Alkali / Alkalines in the stone.

Which is why I say - Silica based gravel. Acid .
Good Day
Anthony

 

[AlainK]

around 1981, winter in Firenze, killed old olives,

Not really : exceptional cold weather can kill the upper part of an olive tree. It then takes a few years to yield fruit again.

It was 500 years or so, before, when Michelangelo was able to build snow men.

Er... Not sure what you mean.

You know, there's snow all over Europe, more or less depending on the year.

"L’inverno l’è passato la neve non c’è più" as the old song goes.

The snow protects the trees and the roots of other plants. What's critical is when the snow has melted, the weather has got warmer, and - BANG: a cold wave.

I suppose it's hard to figure that out in the Carribean

A souvenir of the place where I grew up, but some 55 years later and 200 miles north, in the plains: