Erythroxylum, Cocaine Bonsai

BillsBayou

Chumono
Messages
681
Reaction score
1,782
Location
New Orleans, Louisiana
USDA Zone
9a
Bill,

drugs are for depressed and unhappy folk. I have never reached any
point where I would have been interested in ganja,cocaine, datura or
or anything else.:)

I just research and in achieving, the mind achieves peace.
Good Day
Anthony

I was once told "Bill. I know why you don't do drugs. You're having too much fun with reality."

I'm with you, Anthony. :)
 

miker

Chumono
Messages
726
Reaction score
688
Location
Wyomissing, PA
USDA Zone
6b
Well, well, I was waiting for a thead on this tree and the genus Erythroxylon as a bonsai subject to be created. I came across a photo of the tree in the original post online a couple years ago (I think it was posted in a thread about Cannabis bonsai). I also came across a Dutch website selling coca seedlings as sort of a novelty item.

I would love to have added this to my ethnogen/ethnobotanical collection when I was in Fl and had such a collection. It would have had to grow alongside cloudforest orchid species in a large cool terrarium. I grew species like datura, kratom (tried as bonsai), salvia, ayahuasca, san pedro, Areca catechu, papaver som.(these didnt make it there, even in winter), certain Acacia species and a couple others that will remain nameless :) To ensure a well rounded collection, I even had the mundane stuff like coffee, tobacco, cacao, tea (camellia sinensis), yerba mate. I wanted Catha edulis (khat) , but this is nearly impossible to find and illegal.

I wonder if the other Erythroxylon species (other than E. coca) are legal in the US? When I find out, I will post the answer here. If so, this would be a must have for my collection as a curiosity and conversation piece. Time to finally get a greenhouse up and running now that I am in Pa.

Lastly, I have also seen some very interesting pharmaceutical antique items from Doctor’s offices, old pharmacies and dentists at flea markets antique shops and online. It is amazing that such a maligned (rightfully so, in its refined form) substance was so ubiquitous at one time here.

Okay, I’ll get back on topic now.
 
Last edited:

Shima

Omono
Messages
1,181
Reaction score
1,803
Location
Hilo Hawai'i
USDA Zone
11A
Have a few "coca" tales from younger days, but none as eloquent or suitable for public view :p
Some time in the eighties (that's as close as I can get), The headline of the San Francisco Chronicle said, "Cocaine found to be non-addictive". Oh boy. Saw a lot of folks go down. But sorry Anthony, all those kids at Woodstock weren't unhappy. They just wanted to be happier. There are drugs and there are drugs. And the reasons for using them are greatly varied.
 
Last edited:

miker

Chumono
Messages
726
Reaction score
688
Location
Wyomissing, PA
USDA Zone
6b
Here here Shima, very well stated.

Looking a little more into this, this evening, I learned that the genus Erythroxylon=Erythroxylum has many species native to tropical regions worldwide. Research conducted has found that a number of these species besides E. coca produce cocaine and a few in amounts as high or slightly higher (no pun intended) on average than Erythroxylon coca.

A final interesting fact is that two such species are native to the state of Florida (Erythroxylon aereolatum and Erythroxylon confusum) and they are two of the ones that contain cocaine. Who knew?

Have fun fellow Floridians :)
 

LanceMac10

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,798
Reaction score
17,176
Location
Nashua, NH U.S.A.
USDA Zone
5
giphy.gif
 

AlainK

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,394
Reaction score
9,486
Location
Orléans, France, Europe
USDA Zone
9A
Don't do coke, kids.

+1

Don't do anything that enslaves you, guys: tobacco, alcohol, religion, barbecue, soft drinks loaded with sugar and bonsai,...

Er, no, bonsai is OK.

It doesn't make you fat, doesn't make you prone to heart diseases and strokes, doesn't consume the world resources, doesn't lead you to want to kill people, it brings fraternity and beauty to the rest of the world, that's all. A harmless addiction.

Bought me an e-cig a few days ago. A lesser evil. But I'm so addicted, it's so hard to quit when you started 45 years ago, I still poke into a bag of tobacco to roll me a cigarette....

I tried a lot of things, just to know, you want to know when you're a teen, or a "twenteen", but I always managed not to "cross the line", not like some of the people I knew who died from it.

That's why I'm in favor ol legalizing all drugs, and at the same time having a healthcare system to help those who are trapped into it. Especially those that are not addictive - months since I had some :(


PS: I have the original LP from 1979 in the vault (the basement) :cool:
 

Shima

Omono
Messages
1,181
Reaction score
1,803
Location
Hilo Hawai'i
USDA Zone
11A
That's why I'm in favor ol legalizing all drugs
It works for Portugal. I had a friend. A white Russian survivor. Smoked three cigs per day. One after each meal. He savoured the experience. Held them the way Russians do. You know. Something like how Native Americans used tobacco I suppose.
 

miker

Chumono
Messages
726
Reaction score
688
Location
Wyomissing, PA
USDA Zone
6b
Acuminata? Burkittii? There are a few to choose from.
lol;)

Hehe Starfox, there are so many to choose from in that particular genus, but I never had those two. An article I read over 10 years ago stated that tests identified levels of amphetamine and methamphetamine in Acacia berlandieri and Acacia rigidula, which would be there first evidence of those particular amines being present in nature.These results were disputed and it is speculated that the levels of these two drugs were a result of contamination during the experiment. Perhaps contminated glassware that was acquired second-hand and previously used in a meth lab? Anyhow, I grew these two species for a while in the late 2000s; the soon-to-be defunct Yucca-Do nursery had them back then. A shame, as they have had some really interesting offerings over the years.

Returning closer to the original topic now, I definitely plan to acquire the seeds and apply bonsai techniques to a few of the available Erythroxylon species now; (excluding E. coca of course). I will eventually post future results. I just need to actually germinate the seeds first.
 

Anthony

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,290
Reaction score
8,388
Location
West Indies [ Caribbean ]
USDA Zone
13
I believe the birds eat the seed, because you find one inland type
everywhere.

The flowering is stunning -------- small white stars.
Which why we collected the few, for that amazing effect, seen in folk's
yards.

Below is what we imagined.
Good Day
Anthony

When the shrub was younger and shown a while ago on IBC

By the way the image I left earlier, was to check branch density, tree now going into training.

oxy defoliated IBC.jpg

Here is another one you guys might enjoy - the indoor oak - was Nicodemia diversifola
shited to the Buddehlia family.
Those tiny flowers will easily scent an 18 x 18 foot room.
The scent is divine.
The root also has something in it.

Shrub - Sub Tropical - Madagascar ----- Victorian days plant.

indoor oak (2).jpg
 

Wires_Guy_wires

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,411
Reaction score
10,637
Location
Netherlands
In no way do I want to sound judgmental. This is meant as a neutral comment, not attacking anyone. But I didn't agree with something and I'd like to explain why..

It doesn't consume the world resources. A harmless addiction.
That's an interesting point of view. I used to think the same way about it, until my ecology teacher forced me to do some calculations and some research about the origin of stuff.
Take a look at where European peat moss, potting soil ingredients and turf come from.. Sure, we only use it in small amounts, but nonetheless it adds up to destroying the world. Those all are packaged in small handy bags, shipped, processed, repackaged, placed in stores that need heating, light and what not, then we take them home to use for maybe 10 years at most.
Also, don't forget about the miles of copper wire that we're not reusing. Recycling is one thing, but the stuff needs to be molten down, purified, refined, molten down again and shaped in to whatever it needs to become.
Or the sprays people use against pests and fungi, packed with nasty chemicals (see: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180308120621.htm).
Shipping pots from abroad means that you're basically spending petrol, gasoline and polluting the environment simply because some people want a japanese stamp on a pot they could've made at their own homes. Let alone the baking of said pots, how many joules are needed to heat clay to baking temperature? We could use recycled plastic, make our own, but those aren't that pretty.
Akadama? We love akadama from Japan.. I order 14kg bags of the stuff. Those need shipping from Japan, to my reseller, and from there to my home. It needs packaging too, of the durable kind.. It comes in a box, with a bag inside. But before that, it's been in 5 more boxes, all wrapped in plastics, possibly even in a ethylene gassed container during transport to kill bugs. Ethylene does grow on trees, but that's not the stuff they're putting in containers.

Taking a tree to a club meeting just for show, or just to work on it, doesn't sound very eco-friendly either. If you take a tree to a club 40km from your home (+/-40 minute drive), and you have a very efficient car, you'll still use up around 2 litres of gasoline. On the way back, again, 2 litres of gas. Do that three or four times, and you've added enough CO2 to the atmosphere as your tree will take up from it during it's lifetime (considering that the CO2 is stored as wood, in leafs it just ends up in the cycle).
Wikipedia says: 1 litre of gasoline creates 2.68kg of CO2.
4 rides back and forth (=8) times 2 litre (makes 16) times the 2.68kg/L means you'll be pumping roughly 32 kilograms of CO2 in the atmosphere. Now, I'm no expert on trees and weightlifting, but 32kg seems like a pretty big tree. That's 70 pounds. Half of my weight as a human. A little over two cubic foot of dry douglas fir wood, how much time does that take in nature to form? 15 years or so? While the drives shouldn't take more than half a day. That's just 4 times of going to bonsai clubs, needing 15 years to balance out in nature.
Think about that for a while.. Doing this calculation did make me think.. There's simply no justification for that kind of footprint, simply for 'shaping a tree' or 'putting it on display'. Or is there? If so, I'd like to know!

Let's stay honest, it does add up, little by little, to destroying the world, but I personally do my best to repay that debt. I'm hoping people will have the same insights, and maybe think about doing the same.
 
Messages
237
Reaction score
294
Location
Toledo Ohio
USDA Zone
6a
In no way do I want to sound judgmental....
Think about that for a while.. Doing this calculation did make me think.. There's simply no justification for that kind of footprint, simply for 'shaping a tree' or 'putting it on display'. Or is there? If so, I'd like to know!
Let's stay honest, it does add up, little by little, to destroying the world, but I personally do my best to repay that debt. I'm hoping people will have the same insights, and maybe think about doing the same.

Good points, and well worth keeping in mind. Calculations are good for raising awareness, and you're right to speak up so as to reduce complacency. Further, chaos always wins. All things move from order toward disorder. This is, in fact, a losing battle unless we drastically change the amount of energy we put into balancing consumption vs. production. make more plants and less people!! ;-) LOL But, it's as important to recognize the little cumulative positive changes we make, too. Otherwise, we risk embracing defeatist attitudes.

Seriously, we should all be seeking out ways to minimize our footprints - "sustainable Bonsai" has a nice ring to it. Reusing old nursery pots, re-purposing old pallets for grow-boxes, using cuttings to turn one tree into dozens, stretch it a bit and think of all the gas we've saved talking here in the forum instead of flying to conventions.

You can be sure that the folks planting thousands of pine trees over in the six year competition will be reducing their marks by a little. Y'all are planting the survivors, right?
 
Last edited:

Anthony

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,290
Reaction score
8,388
Location
West Indies [ Caribbean ]
USDA Zone
13
Well, you plant a seed in silica based gravel, which occurs naturally, and use compost.
Grow and clip, fire the pot in a wood fired kiln, using lumber from the sea on
the beach.
Tools can be drop cast from the iron ore we have.
Fertilser is dead fish found on the beach, as well as seaweed if needed.
How am I doing ?:).
Good Day
Anthony

* The cuttings from the trees make compost:eek:

There really isn't anything in Bonsai, you can't do for yourself.:cool:
 

Dr greenthumb

Sapling
Messages
27
Reaction score
13
I'm from Colombia. And I found some one who sells coca's plant so I bought one and I'm so happy to make My own bonsai
 

Attachments

  • IMG-20211021-WA0004.jpg
    IMG-20211021-WA0004.jpg
    101.8 KB · Views: 26

hinmo24t

Masterpiece
Messages
2,480
Reaction score
3,165
Location
Dartmouth Massachusetts
USDA Zone
7A
I know of a retired cardiologist, a Peruvian national, who as carry on luggage, brought through customs, at Chicago ORD a "gallon size" beautiful hand woven basket containing a couple ounces of dried coca leaf. When asked by the customs agent, " do you have any thing to declare", he set the basket up on the counter and said "hierba de coca". Agents scrambled, talked, called, paged through books, computer. After an hour said"go ahead" it's allowed. Apparently in 2007 the cocaine drug was illegal, but the leaf itself was too low in cocaine to break the law. This may have changed since then. Consult your lawyer before attempting this trick. I did get to sample "matte de coca" at this physician's home and pronounced it a delightful, mildly stimulating drink with pleasant effects, no more dramatic than a cup of coffee, but rather different than coffee. Certainly not a buzz by any means. Very mild and very pleasant, flavor much like green tea, with a hint of mint. Fond memories of lovely people.
reminded me of a few fond memories myself haha (college dayz)
 

Wires_Guy_wires

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,411
Reaction score
10,637
Location
Netherlands
gnaw on any leafs you prune off, youll be zippity for sure
Trust me, they'll drop by themselves.

Coca are notoriously hard to keep. Look at them wrong and they die.
But pine bark, pumice, lavarock and akadama or granite make a great mix.

Annual random leaf drops are scary. And they do not like repotting, trimming or bending at all. They do well in a window sill though! Nice indoor plants.
Pollination is a bitch though, they're not self-pollinating and not family compatible (they don't do sexy stuff with family members).

I used to think I struck gold by getting different plants from different sources, but hand-pollinating a hundred flowers six times a week doesn't make it worth the five seeds that you yield 2-3 months later. Especially if one considers their 10-20% survival rate.
 
Top Bottom