Estimate provenance of unglazed pot (chop and some wear)

[Cosmos]

I bought this pot for 10$ in a flower shop (?) last year. It felt sturdy to me, the size and look are usable. Dimensions are 8.5 x 11.5 x 3.75.

I spent about 30 minutes of my life that I’ll never get back looking at the Chops and Seals website, to no avail.

This pot has a few things that seem unusual to me (I know nothing about pots). The round piercing hole at the bottom. The number indicates, I would guess, that it was bought as part of a lot. It is chipped at several locations (mostly the legs and the rim), and has some traces of green paint on one side (pictured). The bottom of the pot is not level or properly angled, so water doesn’t naturally run towards the holes.

What’s your guess?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Without giving it 30 minutes of my life too, it looks like an inexpensive Chinese Yixing Zisha clay pot to me. Serviceable and worth every bit of $10.

 

[River's Edge]

I bought this pot for 10$ in a flower shop (?) last year. It felt sturdy to me, the size and look are usable. Dimensions are 8.5 x 11.5 x 3.75.

I spent about 30 minutes of my life that I’ll never get back looking at the Chops and Seals website, to no avail.

This pot has a few things that seem unusual to me (I know nothing about pots). The round piercing hole at the bottom. The number indicates, I would guess, that it was bought as part of a lot. It is chipped at several locations (mostly the legs and the rim), and has some traces of green paint on one side (pictured). The bottom of the pot is not level or properly angled, so water doesn’t naturally run towards the holes.

What’s your guess?

They are usually found in a set of 3. Small/Med/large. I use them for inexpensive serviceable pots, beginner tree material. That would be the middle size. Although they do not look like much they are pretty solid and stand up fairly well. Not so good in areas with colder climates, tend to crack with freezing.

 

[Bananaman]

I'd say $9.95 and not a penny more.

I took a look at the chop in more detail. I can just make out "Made in USA"

 

[Cosmos]

Without giving it 30 minutes of my life too, it looks like an inexpensive Chinese Yixing Zisha clay pot to me. Serviceable and worth every bit of $10.

Thank

They are usually found in a set of 3. Small/Med/large. I use them for inexpensive serviceable pots, beginner tree material. That would be the middle size. Although they do not look like much they are pretty solid and stand up fairly well. Not so good in areas with colder climates, tend to crack with freezing.

Thank you guys.

Colder climates...that’d be me. Any way to freeze test this pot before I put anything in it? It has inward curved lips, I’ve read by some here that this can make pots more susceptible to crack too.

I'd say $9.95 and not a penny more.

$10 CAD equals about 7.60 USD...so what you’re saying is that I made a good deal. Got it.

 

[Bananaman]

$10 CAD equals about 7.60 USD...so what you’re saying is that I made a good deal. Got it.

Considering there is a guy that wants to drill holes in baking dishes, i'd say you stole it...

 

[Dav4]

Thank



Thank you guys.

Colder climates...that’d be me. Any way to freeze test this pot before I put anything in it? It has inward curved lips, I’ve read by some here that this can make pots more susceptible to crack too.



$10 CAD equals about 7.60 USD...so what you’re saying is that I made a good deal. Got it.

I'd use that pot without hesitation in your location. Stoneware pots like this one are high fired and fully vitrified which would make it fairly frost proof. As far as the inward curving lips, they can pose a problem when soil freezes and pushes upward against them... if the soil is packed tight to the top and moisture laden, it may crack. The solution is to make sure the soil has room to expand before hitting the lip.

 

[Cosmos]

I'd use that pot without hesitation in your location. Stoneware pots like this one are high fired and fully vitrified which would make it fairly frost proof. As far as the inward curving lips, they can pose a problem when soil freezes and pushes upward against them... if the soil is packed tight to the top and moisture laden, it may crack. The solution is to make sure the soil has room to expand before hitting the lip.

So the solution would be as simple as having the soil line sit a bit lower in the pot, as opposed to right up to the curve?

 

[Dav4]

So the solution would be as simple as having the soil line sit a bit lower in the pot, as opposed to right up to the curve?

Yup. As long as the freezing soil can move upward and not encounter the lip, it won't be an issue. Pots can fail for other reasons, though, so your mileage may vary.

 

[just.wing.it]

Good find for ten bux!

 

[rockm]

So the solution would be as simple as having the soil line sit a bit lower in the pot, as opposed to right up to the curve?

This is a crap shoot. Depends on "how low can you go" with the soil and the depth and duration of subsequent freezing--low temps for a long time will cancel out any soil level lowering.

Best way not to lose a higherend pot with an incurved lip is to remove the tree from the pot and store the pot separately without soil in it...

This pot is probably expendable however...

 

[River's Edge]

So the solution would be as simple as having the soil line sit a bit lower in the pot, as opposed to right up to the curve?

Another adjustment is to use a freer draining soil mix that holds less moisture, more air space. Also gauge your watering carefully in the winter and protect tree and pots from heavy rain and or runoff potential in the storage site.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

water expands as it freezes - a good bonsai potting mix has many air voids. Water can expand into the air voids as the pot freezes. Key is to make sure your bonsai mix is nice and open, with no fines, so the expansion can happen without causing too much stress on the pot.

I have a number of YiXing pots, both the lower end Zisha and some higher end, more finely made YiXing pots. They usually are freeze thaw resistant. I've lost as many Tokoname pots to freezing as YiXing pots to freezing, both are ''mostly'' good in a Chicago winter. Shape is a consideration.

 

[JoshuaRN]

I feel the pain on the chop research, what helped me initially was to take some time and just look at the bottoms of higher end pots, what features seperate them, drain size, wire holes, chop location/style . Not exclusive (first example is gekko , holes are tiny, pot is amaizing) but it’s a loose start to separating the difference . That said production pot doesn’t have to be a bad thing , the thin little white clay ones are crap but that pot looks great.
The real kick in the teeth was when I started I thought I needed a bonsai pot to start training a bonsai... later I found out that a. I had to source soil, b. Most of the guys I was mimicing had their trees in progress in plastic nursery pots cut down, or wood trainers and pots were reserved for the last few years, and c. It’s harder to experiment in a clay pot than it is in a trainer , if I need tie downs I just poke a hole, with clay I’m drilling or getting McGuiver creative .
Pot looks like a great start and nothing to doubt yourself on.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I feel the pain on the chop research, what helped me initially was to take some time and just look at the bottoms of higher end pots, what features seperate them, drain size, wire holes, chop location/style . Not exclusive (first example is gekko , holes are tiny, pot is amaizing) but it’s a loose start to separating the difference . That said production pot doesn’t have to be a bad thing , the thin little white clay ones are crap but that pot looks great.

What do you make of this one?

 

[JoshuaRN]

Lol Brian I have no idea ,but I like stone rounds; are you asking me what I think of the quality or if I can guess as to who made it? Looks like a American made stoneware pot but it’s definitely hand made, I have a few im clueless about as well pure assumption but that pot has a cool texture, and I think I can see a signature on the side?

What I was talking about above was how to spot the differences between the mass produced pots and hand made pots, that why I was including what’s helped me.
But hey maybe you can also help me with this mystery as well.

 

[Shima]

What do you make of this one?
View attachment 219077

Handmade with hanko, (chop, stamp) and worth more than what you might think.

 

[Dav4]

What do you make of this one?
View attachment 219077

Total hack...

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Lol Brian I have no idea ,but I like stone rounds; are you asking me what I think of the quality or if I can guess as to who made it? Looks like a American made stoneware pot but it’s definitely hand made, I have a few im clueless about as well pure assumption but that pot has a cool texture, and I think I can see a signature on the side?

What I was talking about above was how to spot the differences between the mass produced pots and hand made pots, that why I was including what’s helped me.
But hey maybe you can also help me with this mystery as well.

I have no idea who made your pot, could be any random with a wheel and a kiln. There are only a handful of American potters whose works I’ll own, and maybe 3 whose works I’d seek out. Partly because 90% are wheel-thrown rounds (or worse, wheel-thrown then stretched to ovals). But mainly because most are tone-deaf to the subtleties required in pots paired with bonsai trees. Most American pots present with a “need” to stand out in the composition, rather than to become part of the whole.

Here are some examples. The American pot jumps out, doesn’t it? One of the others is a production-grade Japanese pot, worth less than half of any of the others. Bonus points for spotting it.?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Handmade with hanko, (chop, stamp) and worth more than what you might think.

Probably worth more than what you might think...?