European beech project

[Samson]

Hi guys,
I found this beech which is I think very interesting and has a lot of potencial.
My questions are:
•When is the best time to dig it out? Some says spring time, when buds are full, some in autumm when leaves turns yellow and starts fall down.
•Should I leave as much original soil as possible on the roots and plant it like that, just fill the pot with substrate? And in a year or two when roots will be better replace all with only substrate?
•What cuts should I make now?
Thank you for all advice ans please excuse my english

 

[BobbyLane]

some good info here, im assuming youre in the UK or a part of Europe in which case most of this applies.

Wild trees for bonsai 2019 (UK)

Some bonsai enthusiasts don't like winter because they have nothing to do. I can't wait for winter because it's the best time to hunt for wild trees. Here are some trees I've found and will be working on in the ground or collecting this year. This is a European Hornbeam that I found at the...

www.bonsainut.com

peeps will collect at different times and have success doing so. spring is an ideal time for most

 

[Samson]

Thanks Bobby. Lots of good info.
I am from Slovakia, we have different weather here. I could work on it now, do a trench thing, and maybe collect in autumm.
But I am worried because is next to trail and people would see it. Anything could happen then... I cut branches and trunk already, left some extra lenght. Buds seems pretty sleepy still, but we have still som night\early morning freezing temperatures.( 0 / -2°C)
So not sure what to do.

 

[BobbyLane]

youre in the same climate as @Maros
he collects, you should check out his threads

he doesnt usually find beech though but plenty of hornbeam

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

The contrast between the straight L's and nice curve is going to be a beautiful challenge!

Just don't kill it first!

Nice.

Sorce

 

[Tieball]

I would collect it as soon as you see the bud swelling. By “next to a trail” does that signal a do-not-dig location? If it were me. I would dig it up, fill the hole back up, keep the root ball as much contained as possible and plant it in a temporary box or large container. I’d get it healthy and then after a couple seasons of stability “re-pot it...or re-box it”, root prune at that time knowing the tree has a healthy start. To me the boxing up lets you experiment with light exposure, sunlight or filtered sunlight, when you live to obtain the best results. The tree is easily moved and kept outdoors all the time.

I've had instances where the digging time was best later and I was concerned about others seeing the tree. What I did was find fallen dead branches and sort of naturally, purposefully, positioned the “fallen” dead branches along with some strategically “blown in by the wind” leaves to disguise and hide the tree from eyes. Most all trail walkers or runners don’t want to go digging under brush, hands get dirty, shoes getting dirty, and they have no idea what bugs are lurking beneath limbs. I’ve created some very natural disguises....sometimes even made it difficult for me to find the tree. Ha!

 

[HorseloverFat]

...What I did was find fallen dead branches and sort of naturally, purposefully, positioned the “fallen” dead branches along with some strategically “blown in by the wind” leaves to disguise and hide the tree from eyes. ...I’ve created some very natural disguises....sometimes even made it difficult for me to find the tree. Ha!

I love this idea, and am most likely going to put it into practice... I have “marked”specimens which I saw much potential in.. only to return in spring to find a lonely hole, some root fragments and evidence of other hands. It is heartbreaking.. well.. maybe that’s a little dramatic....
So it’s heartbreaking to those who are “a little dramatic”... we have a support group, please bring a snack or beverage to share.

 

[Maros]

Beech is a tricky bastard for collecting. It is first or close second most common species in our woods. But there are real problems collecting them. First, you better have a lot of buds (A LOT) below future cuts during collecting. They help start the tree after collecting. If your stumps do not have buds you can face serious difficulties with survival. If you prepare the trees by shortening them this season (good time now) be sure they are (ao will not be) in the shadow of the big trees surrounding the area. If they are shadowed too much they can die. If you collect them they as default sprout from buds, grow a little bit a usually die after 2-3 months. I haven't found a way to do it successfully, to be honest.
If I had to try to collect beech next time I would try to ensure: the tree has a lot of buds, the timing of collecting is just perfect with buds swelled to the max but not opened yet, stored it in the garden in half shadow after potting, strongly protect if from wind (polytunnel or greenhouse preferably) for few months, keeping high moisture could also help.
My two cents. If you need something write me, I'll try to help if I can.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Beech is a tricky bastard for collecting. It is first or close second most common species in our woods. But there are real problems collecting them. First, you better have a lot of buds (A LOT) below future cuts during collecting. They help start the tree after collecting. If your stumps do not have buds you can face serious difficulties with survival. If you prepare the trees by shortening them this season (good time now) be sure they are (ao will not be) in the shadow of the big trees surrounding the area. If they are shadowed too much they can die. If you collect them they as default sprout from buds, grow a little bit a usually die after 2-3 months. I haven't found a way to do it successfully, to be honest.
If I had to try to collect beech next time I would try to ensure: the tree has a lot of buds, the timing of collecting is just perfect with buds swelled to the max but not opened yet, stored it in the garden in half shadow after potting, strongly protect if from wind (polytunnel or greenhouse preferably) for few months, keeping high moisture could also help.
My two cents. If you need something write me, I'll try to help if I can.

Ah! Maros!!! Where were you with your fantastic information BEFORE I collected some beeches? hahaha... I seriously appreciate this! Buuuut it does “shake my faith”about at least one of the smaller beeches I collected in fall. At least now I will now WHY...

 

[Samson]

I think I can dig at that place, but you know people... Troublemakers are everywhere...
I did cover it as you do it, with dead trees and some bushes. To dig it out will take couple hours probably. I really like that tree a lot, I will do my best to give it biggest chance to survive. But as I read your coments I am worried now. It is in forest with big trees around so it wouldnt have much light to cut it and leave for next season. I will do it now, wait until buds are full.
So, after collecting, do I place it in box with all original soil around roots and fill up with substrate? (I have zeolite and liapor)
Thank you all for your advice.
@Maros , I ll send you message

 

[Djtommy]

I think if you collect this now the chances of survival are slim.
how about cutting the trunks halfway through and collect it next year? It won’t kill the tree and might induce backbudding ( I never done this though so it’s a kind of wild guess but it’s what I would try)

 

[Tieball]

I love this idea, and am most likely going to put it into practice... I have “marked”specimens which I saw much potential in.. only to return in spring to find a lonely hole, some root fragments and evidence of other hands. It is heartbreaking.. well.. maybe that’s a little dramatic....
So it’s heartbreaking to those who are “a little dramatic”... we have a support group, please bring a snack or beverage to share.

Just a note. I never mark trees for future collecting. I simply photograph the tree and the disguise...and perhaps a key visual item near the tree: example, I photograph a nearby uro or stump. When I do come back to dig it’s easier to find the uro or the stump and then start looking. It works for me as a memory jogging method. I’m visual. Some might use GPS coordinates...I just don’t know how to do that...and my visual need can see the stump or uro quicker. Marking, to me, seems to send a signal to others casually scanning looking as they walk and invites a closer look.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Just a note. I never mark trees for future collecting. I simply photograph the tree and the disguise...and perhaps a key visual item near the tree: example, I photograph a nearby uro or stump. When I do come back to dig it’s easier to find the uro or the stump and then start looking. It works for me as a memory jogging method. I’m visual. Some might use GPS coordinates...I just don’t know how to do that...and my visual need can see the stump or uro quicker. Marking, to me, seems to send a signal to others casually scanning looking as they walk and invites a closer look.

Absolutely.. landmark navigation. I prefer that to digital. Hehe. It makes a lot of sense NOT to mark the trees... that’s like selecting great trees for anyone who happens to stumble upon my marker... that grim moment of non-knowing disbelief and denial. The same feeling you get upon walking back to where you DID park your car...... pre-theft.

 

[Samson]

I think if you collect this now the chances of survival are slim.
how about cutting the trunks halfway through and collect it next year? It won’t kill the tree and might induce backbudding ( I never done this though so it’s a kind of wild guess but it’s what I would try)

I like the idea, make sense, but some say that if you cut tree like this and it doesnt have lots of light, may die too. Also this beech have just few buds so backbudding is needed.It is in forest surrounded by other big trees, not much light.

 

[Samson]

Today I went to check on tree, ended up digging it out. I tried to do my best and use all advice from you guys. Hopefully tree will be ok and we will live our lifes together since today. My will probably end first
Anyways, here are some pictures:

 

[Samson]

What can I do now to help it survive? When can I feed ? Can I cut branches shorter or better wait season?
Thanks for help
It is interesting that there is pretty nice symmetry from one side, can I use it somehow ?

 

[Tieball]

Keep all buds you have. Don't remove any. Those buds are the lifeline of the branches and the trunk. I don’t fertilize until leaves are well established. Your identity doesn’t say where you live, what zone....add this so you’ll get better targeted advice.

In my climate Beech trees are in filtered sunlight for about half the time. Filtered at my place means under the ridges of Oak trees. The Beech get direct morning sun and then the Oaks filter the sun in the later hours. I Keep the trees watered daily in a well draining substrate mixed with Pine Bark Chips. In the winter the Beech sit outside with full exposure to the cold, the sun and the snow.

I think I would need to evaluate several different sides to firm a direction in my mind....and that would be a direction I change at least three times....sometimes coming back to the original thoughts.

Are your Beech buds starting to form a yellow-green coloration mid-bud? Are you breaking buds now? My Beech are the last to open and seem to awaken about the same time as Oaks. I see my Beech buds getting that slight yellow- green color in a few of the buds about now.

 

[Samson]

Thanks. I added my location - Slovakia.
It doesn't have many buds, some branches actually has no buds. I hope they will appear soon. I placed it under open garden shelter, just roof, garage from one side and cover from another, rest open. I think it will get some afternoon sun for few hours. I ll see tomorrow and also take som photos of those few buds.I want to cut it as picture shows.

 

[just.wing.it]

No buds.... Pray hard buddy! Im no beech expert, but that sounds less than desirable.

 

[Tieball]

Just my experience. Keep all of those roots fully covered right now and for quite awhile. Cover fully with soil. Cover fully with moss that has a soil base. But keep them covered. I think you want them to grow and not die off. Exposed like they are is a dried root future.

On my Beech trees a branch with no buds is doomed. The trees seem to only push as far as the highest bud....after that bud....nothing is sent further up the line.