European Hornbeam (Carpinus Betulus)

[coh]

Nice tree!

I have one and have experienced the "summer leaf crisping" problem every year. I have never seen mildew on it, but each summer by mid-late August the leaves start getting brown edges and then turn yellow and drop early. Not all of them, but quite a few. I keep it in full sun, our summers are generally not too hot. Haven't figured out yet whether I'm over or under watering, something with the fertilizer...mystery to me. When I've repotted the roots look fine. I have the same type of thing occur, but to a much lesser extent, on some korean hornbeams.

One thing I have not tried is fungicide, maybe that is the next step.

 

[ConorDash]

Nice tree!

I have one and have experienced the "summer leaf crisping" problem every year. I have never seen mildew on it, but each summer by mid-late August the leaves start getting brown edges and then turn yellow and drop early. Not all of them, but quite a few. I keep it in full sun, our summers are generally not too hot. Haven't figured out yet whether I'm over or under watering, something with the fertilizer...mystery to me. When I've repotted the roots look fine. I have the same type of thing occur, but to a much lesser extent, on some korean hornbeams.

One thing I have not tried is fungicide, maybe that is the next step.

Thanks,
Had you pruned or defoliated? Wondering how old the leaves were, to be able to discern between simply old leaves, or if there is an actual problem?
I think the leaves should survive... I think my hornbeam was fine last few years in that respect, at least.. This year has been bad for mildew, heard about it a lot from others in the UK too. Just the weather was a good combo + I made my own mistakes

 

[MACH5]

Thanks Mach, appreciate it. I believe you mean this angle?
View attachment 326754

The tree also has a bit of an ugly bulge at the bottom, back of the tree. I was hoping to plant ever so slightly at different angle, in Spring, like this:
View attachment 326768

So, still leaning towards viewing but less so. I think its leaning too much at the moment, and I don't like it.

I've not heard of Mancozeb before, looking it up, looks like its a little tough to find for UK (given that Amazon don't stock it) perhaps its a US thing, more than UK? Ill certainly keep my eye out for that though. Sounds like quite a wide fungicide treatment, which is good. Thanks for recommendation

Yes that's give or take the angle I was referring to.

Mancozeb is available through Amazon in the US although not available in some states like NY I believe. One of the best fungicides I have ever used on both conifers and deciduous alike. In any case there are other products that are effective as well against mildew. Relatively easy to control.

 

[ConorDash]

Yes that's give or take the angle I was referring to.

Mancozeb is available through Amazon in the US although not available in some states like NY I believe. One of the best fungicides I have ever used on both conifers and deciduous alike. In any case there are other products that are effective as well against mildew. Relatively easy to control.

Thanks for the info. I'll try get some, not just for now but it comes highly recommended so, worthy of adding to the fungicide arsenal! Ill carefully consider repoting angle and my "front", in winter, when its a clearer image.

Yes, I've heard people control it with our Rose Clear Ultra 2in1, but no luck with me. Also with a LS dilution spray, but no luck. I had cut back relatively hard, so barely any leaves left, sprayed it on the same day, but came back.
Alas, is what it is, I have learnt from it! I think it is probably relatively easy to prevent, but I left foliage on too long, left the tree too bushy, which perhaps caused it. As I said, lessons learnt .

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi Conor,
I will try to not make this boring etc. regarding fungicides.
So you have 2 versions of fungicides, Protectants and curatives and sometimes they are both. Protectants are used to spray every 2-3 weeks to try to give protection from spores etc. Curatives are what it sounds like, after disease is present you are trying to kill the fungi that is present and once you have the fungi present it seems really difficult to kill, just reduce. If you use a curative but NOT use a protectant at same time ( or most of season) then you are just trying to kill it and have no protection when new spores attack etc. And using the same curative may lead to resistance.
Totally agree with @MACH5, as Mancozeb ( huge number of trade names) is the best go-to, as it is one of the best protectants because it protects really well to numerous fungi including powdery mildew, rust, botrytis etc. It protects from 2 different angles so therefore it is very difficult build up a resistance etc.
Other protectants are Sulphur (dissolvable in water), and Bravo ( trade name but easy to search your version via search engine).
Your Rose Clear is a curative style of fungicide, and there are numerous curatives on the wholesale market, but might not at retail level. One that comes to mind is Topsin (brand) - also this is what the Pine guys use as a soil prill (to add to the soil) for Needlecast.
Hope this has been helpful been helpful, and if you can buy Sulphur it is a good organic fungicide.
Charles

 

[eryk2kartman]

One that comes to mind is Topsin (brand) - also this is what the Pine guys use as a soil prill (to add to the soil) for Needlecast.

I used Topsin on my garden fruit trees, seems to work so far but i need to spray it again before the winter, i didnt know you can add it to the pines soil to prevent needlecast, do you have more info about it ? I think its copper based.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

I used Topsin on my garden fruit trees, seems to work so far but i need to spray it again before the winter, i didnt know you can add it to the pines soil to prevent needlecast, do you have more info about it ? I think its copper based.

Hi,
So I don’t know how to tag threads from my phone, so there is a decent thread which has “stop needlecast” in its title. I don’t think there is Copper in its make up, but you have reminded me of another protectant (Copperoxychloride) to help USER=20000]@ConorDash[/USER] and his arsenal etc.

My thinking is that being a systemic curative the fungicide is taken up by the roots and kills the fungi from the inside out kind of thing. I have only used this chemical as a spray so now gets me thinking there is another version to help to control many diseases a different way. Also search for “Cleary’s 336” which is a USA brand for the same thing as this might give more info too.
Charles

 

[eryk2kartman]

I have them in my arsenal sorry but i only can find their decryption in polish.


They Topsin is a liquid, the other 2 are powder, they are cheap

 

[ConorDash]

I have them in my arsenal sorry but i only can find their decryption in polish.
View attachment 326926View attachment 326927View attachment 326928

They Topsin is a liquid, the other 2 are powder, they are cheap

Buy online or local shop? I thought Target was a US thing, but maybe a different Target..

 

[eryk2kartman]

I got them online, its a Polish brand i believe, https://www.target.com.pl/
i got them here:

Frosk - Twój Najtańszy Sklep Ogrodniczy

Frosk - Twój Najtańszy Sklep Ogrodniczy

www.frosk.pl

but im pretty sure google will give you some other options.
roughly 4pln is 1 euro

 

[coh]

Thanks,
Had you pruned or defoliated? Wondering how old the leaves were, to be able to discern between simply old leaves, or if there is an actual problem?
I think the leaves should survive... I think my hornbeam was fine last few years in that respect, at least.. This year has been bad for mildew, heard about it a lot from others in the UK too. Just the weather was a good combo + I made my own mistakes

Did not do any significant pruning or defoliation this year, so all the leaves are old leaves. But I don't think they should be this ratty this early, though it does seem to happen on most of my hornbeams. No mildew that I've seen.

 

[ConorDash]

Did not do any significant pruning or defoliation this year, so all the leaves are old leaves. But I don't think they should be this ratty this early, though it does seem to happen on most of my hornbeams. No mildew that I've seen.

Well at least no mildew.. really ruined one of my other hornbeams this year. Im not sure its affected its growth a lot, just looks terrible. Still cut back twice, and had 3 flushes, including Spring growth.. will see in Winter once leaves are off.
Next year im doing things differently...

 

[ConorDash]

Well, hopefully no return of Mildew next year. Once we are in to winter properly, ill give a LS wash + another before bud break in early Spring.

Will remove leaves, prune and wire where needed this winter. Looking at this tree again now, I think there are multiple places I can improve and I will not be shy to make those changes. It'll be repotted in Spring and tilted in the pot slightly.

DSC_2647 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2650 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2651 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_2654 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

 

[ConorDash]

A proper update on this, without leaves. Some more major corrections made, as I identified mistakes from previous work. Ensuring every branch had movement, was not uninteresting and was ending in the right place, was the goal.
I also adjusted its planting angle, temporarily, for some pics. I plan to plant it at that angle in Spring. Give or take.

DSC_2776 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_2778 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_2785_Editted by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2787_Editted by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

New angle, give or take:
DSC_2791_Editted by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2792_Editted by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

I will be planting at an angle, as I dislike how far forward it leans at the moment, but happy to take on opinions on this. Also the back base has some surface wood that I would like to hide.

All in all, happy with this tree. Quite happy. Its still looking wild. Its had a lot of wire applied but there's no main flow of the branches which is what I like. Wild and untamed looking. I am aiming for a larger canopy on this so it will be left to grow and cut back. The far right and left branches are quite far reaching and they will stay that way. In 2 years if this is too much, I can happily cut back to a lot of good branching + induce buds in the way action. Not expecting to apply a lot of wire now after this. Simple wire perhaps to induce some movement but will try to clip and grow, keeping the angular movements. As the branches grow more to the tips, I want more angular. Inside larger branches, primary, secondary and tertiary, I want more curves. There is method to this

 

[BobbyLane]

I like how thats filling out Conor, its really taking shape now. love the wild look look
i would just suggest though either snipping back the straight shoot on the right to the blue shoot halfway down, it will look better and create a nice change of movement, we want to try to avoid straight sections of branch longer than approx 2in. but you could also still get it curving right with a little tweak, 2.5mm or 3mm wire should do it or you can double up 2 smaller gauges. i can see snipping it may leave a gap.
as the canopy begins to fill out as per your plan, i would begin filling in the front upper half of the crown, indicated in green, we know the trunk is hollow and its a main feature, but obscuring the area with dense twigging will add more mystique.
the branch i marked on the left you would want moving up to let light into the branch below it. i would recommend the shoot on it that is facing upwards.

 

[ConorDash]

I like how thats filling out Conor, its really taking shape now. love the wild look look
i would just suggest though either snipping back the straight shoot on the right to the blue shoot halfway down, it will look better and create a nice change of movement, we want to try to avoid straight sections of branch longer than approx 2in. but you could also still get it curving right with a little tweak, 2.5mm or 3mm wire should do it or you can double up 2 smaller gauges. i can see snipping it may leave a gap.
as the canopy begins to fill out as per your plan, i would begin filling in the front upper half of the crown, indicated in green, we know the trunk is hollow and its a main feature, but obscuring the area with dense twigging will add more mystique.
the branch i marked on the left you would want moving up to let light into the branch below it. i would recommend the shoot on it that is facing upwards.
View attachment 348534

Thanks, good points. Ill revisit this in Spring during leaf pruning / partial defoliation. Or just .. whenever I go in the garden and decide I want to do some bits.
I still quite like the straight section to the right, I see such stand out straight bits in nature, I think I like the "mistake" or "problem" but easy to resolve if I decide I do not, and will only result in a potentially better branch in future anyway.

DSC_2981 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2979 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_2974 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

 

[ConorDash]

19/03/2020




02/01/2021




20 minutes ago







(from this view the far left branch looks WAY out of proportion)

I don't have much to say really. I shortened twigs, a few removals, wired branches around a bit. Few long thin branches to feed inner branches but wired up.
Needs its substrate de-weeded and de-mossed, will be when I can do it outside, messy job. Needs a good pot now too.