European Larch- when to chop?

[brainfree]

I have this Larix Decidua I bought last spring, specifically to turn into bonsai, and I'm wondering what's the best way to proceed. I put it in this pot to let it grow through the summer and wondering if I shouild wait until late winter to chop it down to just above the bottom branches and let it grow another few years? It's a good 4 feet tall with a decent trunk now. I'm in no hurry with this guy and I want to make sure I do this right.

 

[Jorgens86]

If you want to chop do it in spring. Larches less hardy if pruned in winter

 

[AlainK]

I agree : cuts can heal fast when done just at the start of the growing season. Like many deciduous, pruning the roots and the top part at the same time is, to me, the best. For larch, it's just before budbreak, when they begin to turn golden. If a branch is dead or weak, it's easy to see. Here that means between the last week in February and the first fortnight in March...

 

[Forsoothe!]

I agree : cuts can heal fast when done just at the start of the growing season. Like many deciduous, pruning the roots and the top part at the same time is, to me, the best. For larch, it's just before budbreak, when they begin to turn golden. If a branch is dead or weak, it's easy to see. Here that means between the last week in February and the first fortnight in March...

I respectfully disagree. First, I don't prune roots until the tree has grown as much as I want and the tree has reached the refinement stage. Secondly, unpruned roots will be more helpful in restoring the canopy after major pruning, and/or a full canopy will be more helpful in restoring the roots after major pruning, so I do one or the other in any given year. All this according to the philosophy of, "One major insult per year."

 

[AlainK]

You may be right, and perhaps "brainfree" should listen to you to be on the safe side.

But for a tree this size, I don't think it's a problem : if you balance the roots and the branches, there will remain enough energy stored in the wood for the tree to perfectly recover. That's what I do with mine that are between the size of a pen and a bit larger than my thumb in diameter (say 5 mm / 3 cm, 1/5th of an inch to 1 inch and 1/5th of an inch).

For the large one I have (about 12 cm, 5 inches in diameter, 1 tennis ball and a half ), I admit I'm much more cautious.

What's more, all of mine are Larix x eurolepis, there may be some differences in the way one cultivates them...

 

[brainfree]

Okay, but do you both agree the best time to chop is early spring just before budbreak? And if so, should I leave the bottom most branches or cut just below?

 

[AlainK]

Okay, but do you both agree the best time to chop is early spring just before budbreak?

I agree with myself ! Seriously, your tree looks very healthy so there souldn't be any problem. But sometimes, you can lose twigs, or even branches, especially lower on the trunk as I already said. So pruning before budbreak is to me the best option.

should I leave the bottom most branches or cut just below?

It depends what shape, what design you have in mind for the future of your tree. So far, it's a very straight tree, which corresponds to the trees that you can find in forests or are not battered by the wind, the image of a very "noble" tree.

If you choose this option, you can cut the third top and wire up a branch as a new leader.

You can also choose a more "tormented" design, in which case, chopping the 3/4 of the tree and working with the bottom branches could be a solution.

But the base of the tree being very straight, I would choose the first option. That means removing some of the lower banches for you would have to wire the others down, like a mature tree would display.

A very quick virt of what I mean.

- some of the bottom branches can be removed. Anyway, they'll be thinner and weaker than those above. without seeing the tree "in real life", it's hard to say which ones should be removed, and which ones must be kept.
- There's a branch towards the top that can be used as a new leader, it can easily be wired to the right.
- etc.

Once it's lost its leaves, it will be much easier to have a look at the structure, and select, choose, prune, keep, wire, etc.

See you in December

 

[Forsoothe!]

Okay, but do you both agree the best time to chop is early spring just before budbreak? And if so, should I leave the bottom most branches or cut just below?

I, too, agree with me! I would trim top this fall and roots next late spring when all the foliage is mature, like June.

 

[brainfree]

So if I were to trim the top this fall, should I wait to wire the branches until the spring, or right after I trim?

 

[Forsoothe!]

I like to wire in autumn, especially Larch which lignifies nicely over winter. Remove wire when buds begin to swell.

 

[brainfree]

Thank you for your suggestions gentlemen. My original thought when I bought this tree was to go with the "noble" look so here's what I'm thinking. First off, I think I've found the appropriate front.
I don't want it much more than 12" tall so this is where I would cut, and the green line would be the new leader.



Comments or suggestions welcome.

 

[brainfree]

Upon closer consideration I think I do like your suggestion better AlainK, in terms of chopping it higher up as per your example in the first image. There are 2 branches off the main trunk. Think I should keep the medium sized branch or the thinner branch?
And what would you think about chopping the main trunk a little higher to create a jin?


And as for the front- there's this side-

Or this side- I think I like the big root on the nebari facing forward.

 

[AlainK]

Think I should keep the medium sized branch or the thinner branch?
And what would you think about chopping the main trunk a little higher to create a jin?

Maybe I would use the thinner branch.
Jinning one of the two potential leaders could be a good idea, but it depends of what height you are planning for the tree : if the live leader gets higher than the jin, I'm not sure it will work.

See how cautious I am, I wouldn't like to be held responsible if my advice is not good...

 

[brainfree]

I understand your reservation, though
I was also thinking the Jin would be the higher branch as well.

 

[brainfree]

After letting this Larix Decidua grow for a couple years in a pot, I decided I wanted a formal upright style for this tree. Easter weekend seemed like the right time to tackle this project. I pruned the roots and wired the branches and I'd like opinions on whether to keep the branches bent downward like in the photo or bent more horizontally. I've looked at tons of pictures and I see both.