European Spruce #39

Saddler

Chumono
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Yes, you do have the ''right'' to change the meaning of words of course, (there is no law), but what I meant is that regardless of what you call something and regardless of how many people listen to you does not make it true. Literati is a tree which gives you a certain specific feeling. It has nothing to do with subtlety although it can be. There can be no such a thing as ''modern literati.'' Literati is a type of tree which nature produces (and sometimes people can stumble into it if they are lucky) and as we know nature just does not have fashion periods. Only human activities do. I realize you have a lot of influence Walter, but that does not mean too much when we are concerned with the study of natural forms.

I am not saying your tree is not a literati. It may be viewed as such by many. For me it has a way to go but might be an outstanding literati sometime in the future. I don't know. The point is that because it has an oversize jin and is ''aggressive'' does not make it modern.



Here is some Australian literati. It can not be ''modernized''. It just is what it is.

View attachment 204577

View attachment 204578

Here we have Japanese literati. Not subtle. In fact it can be looked at as being aggressive. So what does modern literati mean now?




View attachment 204584

I won't bother you further. :)
The term “modern literati” is considered a protologism. A term used to fill a perceived gap in a language. As Walter stated, only time will tell if it becomes a neologism and then main stream.

Language is ever changing. In fact it has started to change so quickly recently, protologism was invented less then twenty years ago to describe the formation of very new words because the origins were so easily tracked to a specific instance with the success of the internet.

I used to fight the word fight Michael. Life god better when I realized that the English language is slowly being refined like a trees branch. The original word doesn't mean any less, it just is a more general term with better words under it to more accurately describe the subject. AKA nuance.

I am unable to come to terms with the term “vegan bacon” though so I Think I understand what you are feeling.
 

MichaelS

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The term “modern literati” is considered a protologism. A term used to fill a perceived gap in a language. As Walter stated, only time will tell if it becomes a neologism and then main stream.

Language is ever changing. In fact it has started to change so quickly recently, protologism was invented less then twenty years ago to describe the formation of very new words because the origins were so easily tracked to a specific instance with the success of the internet.

I used to fight the word fight Michael. Life god better when I realized that the English language is slowly being refined like a trees branch. The original word doesn't mean any less, it just is a more general term with better words under it to more accurately describe the subject. AKA nuance.

I am unable to come to terms with the term “vegan bacon” though so I Think I understand what you are feeling.
Well there is no such a thing as vegan bacon. So then, if bacon can now mean something else, then when we use the word bacon, we will need to explain what we mean or we need to find a new word for real bacon. That is hardly language refinement now is it? That's what I call language dilution. It makes things more difficult not more easy, so what's the point?
Same with literati. The original word does actually mean less because now it must come with a qualification and an explanation. I fully understand that if enough people accept it then it will become mainstream, but when someone talks to me about literati in a different sense, I will continue to say that they do not understand what literati means.
In fact, even better to do away with bonsai classification altogether. If it needs explanation then it is a failure. Everyone knows what a tree is. That is enough. I should not need to be told what I'm looking at. I'm in the process of doing just that and refuse to put a ''style title'' on any of my trees anymore. If a viewer has not had the experience to comprehend what is in front of them because of a lack of experience looking at lots of trees, that's their problem, not mine.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Interesting discussion!
I have nothing to add except some poor joke about bacon. It does exist. And it sounds awfull. Maybe it's a "smart literati"?
Lightlife-Smart-Bacon.png
 

Silentrunning

Chumono
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Back to the tree - I am still in the “observe and learn” stage in bonsai rather than the “get out the tools” stage. As I analyze bonsai trees I continue to spend a great deal of time in the forest looking for ideas for trees in their natural element. One big difference I have noticed is that the Jin experience is almost nonexistent in real nature except under the harshest of conditions (deserts, mountains etc.). In the woods it seems deadwood will almost always fall off before it sheds its bark. Why then do you almost never see a bonsai with deadwood retaining its bark? Even trees that show elegant foliage will have bleached jins that make that portion of the tree look as if it were sand blasted in the desert. Strictly from a novice’s perspective, the Jin is way overused.
 

Walter Pall

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Back to the tree - I am still in the “observe and learn” stage in bonsai rather than the “get out the tools” stage. As I analyze bonsai trees I continue to spend a great deal of time in the forest looking for ideas for trees in their natural element. One big difference I have noticed is that the Jin experience is almost nonexistent in real nature except under the harshest of conditions (deserts, mountains etc.). In the woods it seems deadwood will almost always fall off before it sheds its bark. Why then do you almost never see a bonsai with deadwood retaining its bark? Even trees that show elegant foliage will have bleached jins that make that portion of the tree look as if it were sand blasted in the desert. Strictly from a novice’s perspective, the Jin is way overused.

You are looking in the wrong forest. In the mountains at timberline EVERY tree has deadwood, often lots of it.1890429_226852604166661_2855686_o.jpgen an incredible lot.
 

rockm

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Back to the tree - I am still in the “observe and learn” stage in bonsai rather than the “get out the tools” stage. As I analyze bonsai trees I continue to spend a great deal of time in the forest looking for ideas for trees in their natural element. One big difference I have noticed is that the Jin experience is almost nonexistent in real nature except under the harshest of conditions (deserts, mountains etc.). In the woods it seems deadwood will almost always fall off before it sheds its bark. Why then do you almost never see a bonsai with deadwood retaining its bark? Even trees that show elegant foliage will have bleached jins that make that portion of the tree look as if it were sand blasted in the desert. Strictly from a novice’s perspective, the Jin is way overused.

Deadwood that retains it bark is true of deciduous hardwood forests here in the Eastern U.S. Our mountains aren't as high as the Rockies or the Alps. The intense sunlight and wind at the tops of 10,000 foot mountains produces that stark white deadwood on conifers--deciduous trees generally are outcompeted with conifers at that altitude. And deciduous trees lack the resin in their wood that naturally preserves it on conifers.

Conifers with stark white deadwood are rare in the Appalachians--unless you're at the top of one of the higher peaks in the chain. This isn't a bad thing. It just is. The trees in the Appalachians have their own, less ostentatious character.

Overuse of jin and starkly bleached deadwood has been a complaint among some bonsai people for a while...
 

Michaelb

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Really impressive tree! Thanks for sharing these photos!
You are a true master.

It doesn't matter what it is called.. the tree speaks for itself...
But you are right that the artist calls the shots ;)
Soon everybody will understand!
Same as with your hedge pruning and heavy watering techneques.
 

AlainK

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So much better without that "priapic" extension that diverted the sight.

Literati or whatever you want to call it, a beautiful tree now. 👍
 

Leprous Garden

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I find it interesting that the short jin implies much of the same shape and movement that the long one did. Reminds me of the quote "an artist knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add but when there is nothing left to take away"
 
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