Ever seen scale growth on a procumbens?

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I noticed on of my procumbens has started putting out some chinesis style scale growth. This just a small mutation? Never seen it before.

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Japonicus

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Yes I have, and I assume it is the same as a scale juniper throwing juvenile needle foliage when pruned hard
or otherwise stressed. Same juvenile response is what I always thought.
 
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Right on. Thought it was interesting, this guy was cut back pretty hard earlier this year but has been growing well since.
 

sorce

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If you're interested, @MichaelS had University Studies showing the difference between Procumbins and San Jose, one which gets scale foliage and one which doesn't, which was heavily argued by some.

May be able to search it.

Sorce
 

thams

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I second @Adair M - I've seen a few examples of well developed procumbens with scale foliage. One particularly nice one was for sale at the ATL club auction this year.
 

Adair M

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I second @Adair M - I've seen a few examples of well developed procumbens with scale foliage. One particularly nice one was for sale at the ATL club auction this year.
I think that was one of Dudley Duggar’s trees. I helped get the price up, if I remember correctly.
 

thams

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I think that was one of Dudley Duggar’s trees. I helped get the price up, if I remember correctly.
Yessir. I was tempted by another procumbens he was selling when I visited his garden a few weeks before the auction. I was on a pot buying spree so I sadly had to pass.
 

PABonsai

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My very first bonsai was a gifted procumbens (about 14 years ago and lived about 1.5 months) and it came to me with mostly scale foliage.
 

Adair M

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Bullshit.
Well, Michael, you can believe what you want. I, however, have seen dozens, actually, more like hundreds of procumbens with scale foliage. They’re in the same nursery pots for 20 years. The trees themselves are 30 to 35 years old. Some are 100% scale. As soon as they get repotted, they revert back to juvenile. Plant City Bonsai in Clermont, GA has dozens of them.

Oh, I know you’ll say they’re not procumbens, they’re San Jose. Not so. San Jose has a larger leaf.

I’m going there Saturday. I’ll take a few pictures.
 

thams

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Well, Michael, you can believe what you want. I, however, have seen dozens, actually, more like hundreds of procumbens with scale foliage. They’re in the same nursery pots for 20 years. The trees themselves are 30 to 35 years old. Some are 100% scale. As soon as they get repotted, they revert back to juvenile. Plant City Bonsai in Clermont, GA has dozens of them.

Oh, I know you’ll say they’re not procumbens, they’re San Jose. Not so. San Jose has a larger leaf.

I’m going there Saturday. I’ll take a few pictures.
I can attest to this as well. When I first saw the "sea of junipers" at Plant City Bonsai, I thought they were shimpaku junipers because they all pretty much had scale foliage. They've all been in their nursery pots for a very long time as you can pull them right out of their pots without them losing an ounce of soil. I'm not sure why it's so unbelievable that procumbens can have scale foliage when there's evidence everywhere.
 

PABonsai

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Well, Michael, you can believe what you want. I, however, have seen dozens, actually, more like hundreds of procumbens with scale foliage. They’re in the same nursery pots for 20 years. The trees themselves are 30 to 35 years old. Some are 100% scale. As soon as they get repotted, they revert back to juvenile.
So, does that mean when they go scale they are in an unhealthy state and need repotted? Or are they ok to go root bound for a while. I'm curious because I like procumbens but hate that needle foliage. It's what keeps me from trying them.
 

Blimpsandmtn

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Yeah my procumbens does the same, some juvenile but now patches of scales
always thought it was it maturing or something.
 

Adair M

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So, does that mean when they go scale they are in an unhealthy state and need repotted? Or are they ok to go root bound for a while. I'm curious because I like procumbens but hate that needle foliage. It's what keeps me from trying them.
It’s a combination of age and being pot bound. Juvenile foliage is the fastest way for the tree to produce solar panels. But, when the tree has “matured”, and doesn’t have new soil to populate, it will settle down to “maintenance” mode, and produce scale foliage that doesn’t require as much resources to sustain.

Fertilizing heavy or repotting will trigger growth, and the tree (shrub, actually) will revert to juvenile growth.

I wouldn’t say that scale foliage procumbens are “unhealthy”, I’ve seen them exist at Plant City for a decade. They prefer to be actively growing, though, with juvenile foliage.
 

PABonsai

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It’s a combination of age and being pot bound. Juvenile foliage is the fastest way for the tree to produce solar panels. But, when the tree has “matured”, and doesn’t have new soil to populate, it will settle down to “maintenance” mode, and produce scale foliage that doesn’t require as much resources to sustain.

Fertilizing heavy or repotting will trigger growth, and the tree (shrub, actually) will revert to juvenile growth.

I wouldn’t say that scale foliage procumbens are “unhealthy”, I’ve seen them exist at Plant City for a decade. They prefer to be actively growing, though, with juvenile foliage.
Thanks @Adair M.
 

barrosinc

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In Chile all Procumbens have juvenile foliage.
I have never seen mature foliage on them. But there is always different varieties or mislabeled plants
 

Arnold

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I live in Spain, In our forum we had the same discussion about the Sonare so its an international theme haha. Some people argue that real sonare will have only needles other the same as here that their procumbens mixes needles and scales. So what we can learn? no much, maybe different clones or species or bad nomenclature in the nurserys as said before

Juniperus procumbens, japanese page: only talks about needle foliage

Juniperus procumbens, japanese page: talks about scale and needle foliage
 
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