Ever seen scale growth on a procumbens?

[MichaelS]

Would you @MichaelS agree that this is a young procumbens nana?
View attachment 328674View attachment 328675

It looks like but there are a few that look the similar.

 

[MichaelS]

"amcoffeegirl, post: 785581, member: 12890"]
Maybe we are referring to different trees than you. I would want to see a close up of the foliage

There's no doubt about that.

I can't really see that one properly but if it has warts on the trunk, it's probably San Jose (which is yet another type of Chinese juniper) They make excellent grafting stock.

 

[coachspinks]

All I can tell you, Michael, is that at Plant City Bonsai they have some 30 to 35 year old Procumbens in nursery containers that sit in full sun, and have never been repotted. Most of them will have a mix of scale and juvi foliage. Some will be all scale, and some will stay full juvi.

I doubt that they ever get fertilized. They’re in typical nursery soil... peat and pine bark and sand mix.

But, when they get repotted, they revert to juvenile.

I will try to get a picture of one of mine from Plant City. It is one of those 30+ year old ones. I repotted it one year and started styling it the next. It has sat for two years with nothing but water, full sun and plenty of organic fertilizer. It has significant percentage of scale but the part that gets the least sun still has some juvenile foliage. It us super overgrown but I do plan on working on it soon. I have no doubt that as soon as I start cutting it will throw juvenile foliage.

 

[TN_Jim]

It looks like but there are a few that look the similar.

the two tree images above are parsons

 

[MichaelS]

My question was not to debate but to address the actual issue.

The best way to address the issue is to stop growing these most ugly of junipers (propagaters have a lot to answer for - why they keep at it is beyond me) and graft something worth growing onto it. It is very easy to do and very worth while and satisfying later on. The good news is that they are vigorous and make very good stock.
You can graft any of the shimpakus or needle junipers like rigida or conferta (sharp needles) or lutchuensis (soft needles - excellent plant) or anything else you might like.
In three years (graft every year) you will have a new a wonderful thing to admire instead of dealing with that monstrosity of a plant.

 

[MichaelS]

the two tree images above are parsons

There you are...

 

[Japonicus]

to stop growing these most ugly of junipers

instead of dealing with that monstrosity of a plant

I have a dozen of these of different sizes on my porch and several more throughout my landscape.
Cultivar and size are by choice. I'm good with the choices I've made in those 2 respects. It may still be Kifu size.
My query was with Adair, and I appreciate his straight forward attempt to address this in a helpful way.
The only conferta I have thus far is my least liked juniper (Blue Pacific), but have only had it 2 years.
I certainly don't like them in landscapes.

@TN_Jim the only weather difference, as with a vast majority of folks here in the States since I had this however long
is we just went through the warmest Winter on record, but this started last year before Winter, after only changing thinning techniques.
Pinching never was a browning issue for me. It just helped cause some stupid growth that needs correcting. I mean lignified wood that
grows up or down or back in on itself for years.

 

[MichaelS]

I don’t care what this is, I think it’s one of my favourite all time bonsai, let alone junipers. View attachment 328814

It's funny how beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I would have said the same thing a few years back. Now it looks to me like a plastic cliche. But the other one (post 154) is worse.

 

[TN_Jim]

But the other one (post 154) is worse.

that’s...a parsons

 

[Adair M]

There's no doubt about that.

I can't really see that one properly but if it has warts on the trunk, it's probably San Jose (which is yet another type of Chinese juniper) They make excellent grafting stock.

Procumbens have those “warts”, too. The warts are actually roots.

San Jose has a more upright growth habit.

 

[coh]

Some things never change. Soil wars, fertilizer wars, hedge pruning wars, procumbens wars. It's comforting in a strange way.

 

[Woocash]

It's funny how beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I would have said the same thing a few years back. Now it looks to me like a plastic cliche. But the other one (post 154) is worse.

Very much so. Normally I find the so called green helmet quite characterless, like you say, a plastic cliche. I think this one with it’s two canopies and the configuration of the trunk and deadwood in between is just a lovely composition. Very architectural.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

This is your picture from 1st post. Hows this or other areas progressing?

They're doing pretty good. Plant remains healthy and there is definitely still scale growth coming on. Here are pics from this morning. Ignore the lazy wiring.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

I have seen people working with very old procumbens in Japan, Bjorn for example worked one, and all have needles in fact many of them are used for grafting itoigawa, if they develop scales with time why these old specimens dont have scales assuming that if they do the japanese will encourage scales over neddles? the japanese sonare used for bonsai its different for the used in europe or us?

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

I have seen people working with very old procumbens in Japan, Bjorn for example worked one, and all have needles in fact many of them are used for grafting itoigawa, if they develop scales with time why these old specimens dont have scales assuming that if they do the japanese will encourage scales over neddles? the japanese sonare used for bonsai its different for the used in europe or us?

My guess is the common garden juniper like I'm showing won't grow scale foliage all over reliably. On my stuff it's patchy at best.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I have seen people working with very old procumbens in Japan, Bjorn for example worked one, and all have needles in fact many of them are used for grafting itoigawa, if they develop scales with time why these old specimens dont have scales assuming that if they do the japanese will encourage scales over neddles? the japanese sonare used for bonsai its different for the used in europe or us?

Why don’t we email Bjorn and ask him?

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

Why don’t we email Bjorn and ask him?

Bet he would answer if someone did a patrion donation to bonsai u and asked.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I have just sent messages to both Bjorn and Todd Schlafer. Either should be able to give a full perspective on the view.
I have asked permission to share the response here.

 

[Japonicus]

My guess is the common garden juniper like I'm showing won't grow scale foliage all over reliably. On my stuff it's patchy at best.

So this is why I responded to Adair that removing entire "tufts" as such would leave many gaps
ultimately deforming the form. Removing the right upward growing shoot of yours here...

does leave back buds to grow out laterally that we can see, (easy fix, remove it now) but, in doing so, will this removal cause more scale growth to be expressed
especially if foliage removal is what caused the scale growth as I suspect in my case?
We hear time and again about shimpaku throwing juvenile growth from over pruning, so I don't see why procumbens would be exempt.

Your picture now, shows the growth more like what I'm having more so than your 1st picture.
Longer and tighter cylindrical growth.

 

[Adair M]

I have seen people working with very old procumbens in Japan, Bjorn for example worked one, and all have needles in fact many of them are used for grafting itoigawa, if they develop scales with time why these old specimens dont have scales assuming that if they do the japanese will encourage scales over neddles? the japanese sonare used for bonsai its different for the used in europe or us?

Arnold, procumbens in Japan aren’t that popular because they stay juvi, or revert to it when they get repotted and/or pruned.