Extra Large Trident.... Something or other.

dlayton

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So back in February I went and dug some giant field grown maples. This one caught my eye. I brought it home and stuck it in the largest pot I had, which obviously wasn't going to work..

Yesterday I built a box. 40 x 32 x 6. Large Lava Rock base, then a layer of bonsai mix, and then Akadama on top. IMG_4983.jpgIMG_5132.jpgIMG_5131.jpgIMG_5133.jpgIMG_5134.jpg

I don't know if this is a forest, a raft, or a clump. The wounds have been sealed so don't crucify me for that, I know how you nuts can be!
 

dlayton

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Cover with Spaghum to help retain moisture. plan now is to just let it grow! Buds are breaking so here we go!
IMG_5135.jpgIMG_5136.jpgIMG_5137.jpgIMG_5138.jpg

As it stands now, I did nothing but cut out the dead, cut it low enough to fit in my F250 with camper top just to get it home, and potted. No other plans but growth now! There are some really cool trunk fusions and the entire base is fused as you can see!
Give me your thoughts! What is it? What do you see it becoming? Anybody have any examples? Thanks!
 

Eckhoffw

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Very cool project with lots of possibilities.
My thoughts are to create variation and asymmetry through refining chops if not to late.
I would leave thickest parts full height, and prune lower the thinner trunks.
Making different levels of foliage will make it more interesting and natural looking.
Looks fun!
 

Shibui

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Looks like a cluster of seedlings has been planted. As the trunks grow they and the roots fuse. I've done a few of these, sometimes accidentally, other times with intent.
Fortunately it appears you have the thickest trunk closer to the middle of the clump - does not always turn out that way.

First priority is to get it growing well again so probably no work this season apart from occasional trim if it grows really well.
This will not be a group or forest which implies separate trees. Raft implies a single tree lying down and tends to be linear. When trunks are fused I think it becomes a clump or multi trunk tree but design considerations are similar for most bonsai. Thicker, taller trunks closer to the centre, Branches shared between all the trunks, Inner trunks will probably have few lower branches, etc. Flow of trunks and line will be important. Branches and trunks that cross or grow in different directions are distracting and unsettle the viewer so try to find a viewing angle and prune to reduce conflicting growth.
I have not developed any clumps with this many trunks but will try to add some pics of some that could provide ideas.
 

dlayton

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Very cool project with lots of possibilities.
My thoughts are to create variation and asymmetry through refining chops if not to late.
I would leave thickest parts full height, and prune lower the thinner trunks.
Making different levels of foliage will make it more interesting and natural looking.
Looks fun!
Thanks. I wanted to leave it this year to see how it grows out and then decide. But i was thinking so,etching along one of these lines. ACAB45D17-0939-4938-A970-E440F1D31C09.jpegE75BF7F7-96C7-45AF-B9CA-761410B84A34.jpegre you saying shorter??
Very cool project with lots of possibilities.
My thoughts are to create variation and asymmetry through refining chops if not to late.
I would leave thickest parts full height, and prune lower the thinner trunks.
Making different levels of foliage will make it more interesting and natural looking.
Looks fun!
 

dlayton

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Looks like a cluster of seedlings has been planted. As the trunks grow they and the roots fuse. I've done a few of these, sometimes accidentally, other times with intent.
Fortunately it appears you have the thickest trunk closer to the middle of the clump - does not always turn out that way.

First priority is to get it growing well again so probably no work this season apart from occasional trim if it grows really well.
This will not be a group or forest which implies separate trees. Raft implies a single tree lying down and tends to be linear. When trunks are fused I think it becomes a clump or multi trunk tree but design considerations are similar for most bonsai. Thicker, taller trunks closer to the centre, Branches shared between all the trunks, Inner trunks will probably have few lower branches, etc. Flow of trunks and line will be important. Branches and trunks that cross or grow in different directions are distracting and unsettle the viewer so try to find a viewing angle and prune to reduce conflicting growth.
I have not developed any clumps with this many trunks but will try to add some pics of some that could provide ideas.
Shibui,

I should have taken a pic of the roots. (From underneath) looking at it from the right side is a huge original stump almos like it was ran over with a bush hog 47 times over the years. But my original thought was seedlings as well. Ole well. It’s all good.

and yes, I would love to see some pics!
 

Shibui

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Here are a few of my earlier attempts at fused tridents.
IMGP3342.JPGIMGP3343.JPGIMGP3345.JPG

Trunks not as thick or numerous as the one you have. I've since done some like that but they are not much more advanced than your clump.
These photos show how I get the trunks to fuse low down.
IMGP3728.JPGIMGP3729.JPGIMGP3731.JPG

A couple from the grow beds last winter.
IMGP3732.JPGIMGP3733.JPG
These shots are the same trees in spring.
IMGP5779.JPGIMGP5780.JPG

Interesting to note that buyers do not appreciate these multi trunk trees. Usually much slower to sell here than single trunk trees.
 

dlayton

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Wow. Those are awesome! Can I see the ones you’re speaking of that aren’t as developed?

did you the, all in the same hole? Or different holes and how many years before you took them off?
 

Shibui

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Wow. Those are awesome! Can I see the ones you’re speaking of that aren’t as developed?

did you the, all in the same hole? Or different holes and how many years before you took them off?
There are more in the grow beds but almost impossible to get good photos while in the ground with leaves all over.
Others have been sold. 20-24 and 25 shown above are the only ones with more than 2 trunks left this time.

These are grown with seedlings threaded though separate holes in the plate but reasonably close together. I guess 7 or 8 holes spread over 1 1/2" The white dots in the image showing under the roots are where the original stems have been cut below the plate. I can't find any photos of multi seedlings through the holes at the start.

Here are some older photos showing the plate with holes and stems after chopping.
IMGP8452.JPGIMGP8453.JPGIMGP8454.JPG

And some more clumps done this way from previous years. All sold on now.
IMGP8455.JPGIMGP8456.JPGIMGP8457.JPGIMGP8458.JPGIMGP8459.JPG
Not every attempt works out well. There's a tendency for the outer trees to get roots out over the plate first and then grow faster than the inner trunks which is the opposite to what actually looks good. Luck or judicious pruning is needed to get consistently good results.

The first summer is the critical time for tridents planted through plates like this. The trunks grow enough to start girdling by around mid summer so new roots really need to make it out and over the plates without getting too dry. I keep these in boxes in the nursery for the first summer so they get consistent water while the new roots get started.
At 1 year, in winter they all get unpotted and the new lateral roots growing above the plates are cut back to the edge of the metal plates. That helps slow stronger ones and allow weaker roots to catch up.
They then go in the ground for a year or 2. Dug every winter, root pruned and chopped down to control relative sizes and strength of individual trunks then planted back in the grow beds. Occasionally they spend a 3rd year in the ground but usually 2 is enough to get trunks to a good size as shown.
 

dlayton

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There are more in the grow beds but almost impossible to get good photos while in the ground with leaves all over.
Others have been sold. 20-24 and 25 shown above are the only ones with more than 2 trunks left this time.

These are grown with seedlings threaded though separate holes in the plate but reasonably close together. I guess 7 or 8 holes spread over 1 1/2" The white dots in the image showing under the roots are where the original stems have been cut below the plate. I can't find any photos of multi seedlings through the holes at the start.

Here are some older photos showing the plate with holes and stems after chopping.
View attachment 427318View attachment 427319View attachment 427320

And some more clumps done this way from previous years. All sold on now.
View attachment 427321View attachment 427322View attachment 427323View attachment 427324View attachment 427325
Not every attempt works out well. There's a tendency for the outer trees to get roots out over the plate first and then grow faster than the inner trunks which is the opposite to what actually looks good. Luck or judicious pruning is needed to get consistently good results.

The first summer is the critical time for tridents planted through plates like this. The trunks grow enough to start girdling by around mid summer so new roots really need to make it out and over the plates without getting too dry. I keep these in boxes in the nursery for the first summer so they get consistent water while the new roots get started.
At 1 year, in winter they all get unpotted and the new lateral roots growing above the plates are cut back to the edge of the metal plates. That helps slow stronger ones and allow weaker roots to catch up.
They then go in the ground for a year or 2. Dug every winter, root pruned and chopped down to control relative sizes and strength of individual trunks then planted back in the grow beds. Occasionally they spend a 3rd year in the ground but usually 2 is enough to get trunks to a good size as shown.
Man those are awesome! Thanks so much for sharing. Do you have a developed one you could share?
 

Shibui

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The trees at the top of post #7 will have to do for developed trees. I don't have room for more so the few clumps I produce are all sold off as soon as possible so someone else can develop the clumps as bonsai.
 

dlayton

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The trees at the top of post #7 will have to do for developed trees. I don't have room for more so the few clumps I produce are all sold off as soon as possible so someone else can develop the clumps as bonsai.
No worries. I understand. Thanks for all your input!
 

dlayton

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Crazy tree… crazy set up.

Healing some big wounds this year and setting primary branches. Needs taper. Going to let her grow grow grow.

Some issues are trunk sizes based on location in the group. Base is totally fused so nothing to do really there except have fund with the ultimate design.
 

dbonsaiw

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Seriously crazy tree and it's looking good. Clump forest style.
 
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