F. microcarpa vs. F. retusa

[DonovanC]

F. microcarpa vs. F. retusa

So for quite a while now, I’ve occasionally pondered the difference between the two species. Many sources definitely use the two names interchangeably. And, I’ve not been able to find any good sources that really help in identifying and distinguishing the two species. So, does anyone have any good resources as far as Ficus taxonomy? I’m looking for scientific, taxonomic information.
Lastly, this is one that I’ve been calling microcarpa for the past year, but I’d love a positive ID - along with identifying information. It wasn’t grafted. When I purchased it, it appeared to have just been chopped. First photo is when I first got it, second is current.
Thanks!

 

[Chuah]

For a long time, the name Ficus retusa in nursery trade has been wrongly applied to F. microcarpa. Since microcarpa is highly variable, what you find as ginseng, tiger bark, green island etc. are cultivars or varieties of F. microcarpa since they all produce the same syconia. According to C.C. Berg, the authority on Ficus taxanomy, there is indeed a species called F. retusa but it has never been available in trade, please see Jerry Meislik's book: The World of Ficus Bonsai. for details. The type specimen of F. retusa was collected by EJH Corner from Borneo, which you can find the leaf shape. https://borneoficus.info/2017/03/17/ficus-retusa-introduction/

 

[Chuah]

Please also see this link about the confusion between F. retusa and F. microcarpa.

Ficus retusa & Ficus microcarpa: Bonsai confusion

ABOVE: A dwarf , cultivated variety of Ficus microcarpa known as Green Island with small round thick leaves for sale in Kota Kinabalu. Many different varieties of Ficus microcarpa grown as bonsai…

borneoficus.info

 

[Forsoothe!]

For a long time, the name Ficus retusa in nursery trade has been wrongly applied to F. microcarpa. Since microcarpa is highly variable, what you find as ginseng, tiger bark, green island etc. are cultivars or varieties of F. microcarpa since they all produce the same syconia. According to C.C. Berg, the authority on Ficus taxanomy, there is indeed a species called F. retusa but it has never been available in trade, please see Jerry Meislik's book: The World of Ficus Bonsai. for details. The type specimen of F. retusa was collected by EJH Corner from Borneo, which you can find the leaf shape. https://borneoficus.info/2017/03/17/ficus-retusa-introduction/

Reading that Link makes me want to scream, "who really gives a shit?" I like to think of myself as a detail-oriented man, but the truth is there is some level of detail that is way beyond my grasp more than 45 seconds after reading real detailed esoteric details only understood by six people on Earth. I'm going to drink myself to sleep now.

 

[DonovanC]

For a long time, the name Ficus retusa in nursery trade has been wrongly applied to F. microcarpa. Since microcarpa is highly variable, what you find as ginseng, tiger bark, green island etc. are cultivars or varieties of F. microcarpa since they all produce the same syconia. According to C.C. Berg, the authority on Ficus taxanomy, there is indeed a species called F. retusa but it has never been available in trade, please see Jerry Meislik's book: The World of Ficus Bonsai. for details. The type specimen of F. retusa was collected by EJH Corner from Borneo, which you can find the leaf shape. https://borneoficus.info/2017/03/17/ficus-retusa-introduction/

Thanks so much! This is definitely the sort of response I was looking for! You’ve helped tremendously

 

[canoeguide]

Basically, nothing being used commonly for bonsai is actually F. retusa.

Just don't use that name, period.

 

[DonovanC]

Reading that Link makes me want to scream, "who really gives a shit?" I like to think of myself as a detail-oriented man, but the truth is there is some level of detail that is way beyond my grasp more than 45 seconds after reading real detailed esoteric details only understood by six people on Earth. I'm going to drink myself to sleep now.

I do lol. I have a general interest in taxonomy and I’m quite a stickler for details. So the article addressing the confusion was quite useful to me.

 

[Forsoothe!]

OK, 7 people.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Make that 8.
If you are willing to dive deep into taxonomy, Fig Web is a good place to start for Old World Ficus.

FigWeb

www.figweb.org

all the taxonomy you need to sort the issue is buried in the many pages here. You may have to take a botany class or two to understand the terminology, but what you need to return to the sources, to sort the problem out are there.

It is true, at least in North America, vast majority of Ficus available are all Ficus microcarpa. Ficus retusa is simply not around in commercial collections. There are a few, but they are almost never propagated for the potted plant trade. It is more coarsely branched and less attractive Ficus than F. microcarpa. The ones most people claim are F. retusa are simply a larger leaf cultivar of the same species, microcarpa. Even the ginseng Ficus is just a fat root cultivar of microcarpa.

 

[DonovanC]

Make that 8.
If you are willing to dive deep into taxonomy, Fig Web is a good place to start for Old World Ficus.

FigWeb

www.figweb.org

all the taxonomy you need to sort the issue is buried in the many pages here. You may have to take a botany class or two to understand the terminology, but what you need to return to the sources, to sort the problem out are there.

It is true, at least in North America, vast majority of Ficus available are all Ficus microcarpa. Ficus retusa is simply not around in commercial collections. There are a few, but they are almost never propagated for the potted plant trade. It is more coarsely branched and less attractive Ficus than F. microcarpa. The ones most people claim are F. retusa are simply a larger leaf cultivar of the same species, microcarpa. Even the ginseng Ficus is just a fat root cultivar of microcarpa.

Thanks for the link - I’ve been very interested in taxonomy over the past year or so, as I’m always looking for a deeper understanding of any endeavor I pursue. I really got a lot out of the link that @Chuah shared in this thread.
thanks again

 

[Michael P]

Make it 9. Knowing the correct classifiction of a plant is essential to access the vast scientific and horticultural literature about its care.

 

[DonovanC]

Make it 9. Knowing the correct classifiction of a plant is essential to access the vast scientific and horticultural literature about its care.

Indeed, sir.

 

[W3rk]

For a long time, the name Ficus retusa in nursery trade has been wrongly applied to F. microcarpa. Since microcarpa is highly variable, what you find as ginseng, tiger bark, green island etc. are cultivars or varieties of F. microcarpa since they all produce the same syconia. According to C.C. Berg, the authority on Ficus taxanomy, there is indeed a species called F. retusa but it has never been available in trade, please see Jerry Meislik's book: The World of Ficus Bonsai. for details. The type specimen of F. retusa was collected by EJH Corner from Borneo, which you can find the leaf shape. https://borneoficus.info/2017/03/17/ficus-retusa-introduction/

Being newer to bonsai when I started getting into Ficus I suffered a lot of confusion with identifying their varieties. Outside of Willow Leaf/Salicaria I felt like I didn't truly know the ID of any of my other Ficus. I had read a post from Adam Lavigne on his site that started to explain some of the ID confusion, particularly around F. Microcarpa, but it didn't quite get the job done for me.

I just recently bought the new Jerry Meislik book for myself and I'm reading it now. I love the info and guides that he gives about all of the different varieties of Ficus. And in particular he provides some great clarification about F. Microcarpa (and it seems a bulk of our commercial Ficus are just various cultivars of F. Microcarpa). Along with clarifying the mis-use of Retusa.

 

[DonovanC]

Being newer to bonsai when I started getting into Ficus I suffered a lot of confusion with identifying their varieties. Outside of Willow Leaf/Salicaria I felt like I didn't truly know the ID of any of my other Ficus. I had read a post from Adam Lavigne on his site that started to explain some of the ID confusion, particularly around F. Microcarpa, but it didn't quite get the job done for me.

I just recently bought the new Jerry Meislik book for myself and I'm reading it now. I love the info and guides that he gives about all of the different varieties of Ficus. And in particular he provides some great clarification about F. Microcarpa (and it seems a bulk of our commercial Ficus are just various cultivars of F. Microcarpa). Along with clarifying the mis-use of Retusa.

I’ve had the same experience. I know the article that you’re referring to, and I agree, it was generally unhelpful - I was left with no greater understanding of the matter than I started out with. The two links that have been shared in this thread have been the most helpful of anything that I’ve come across. And, I have Jerry Meislik’s book in my Amazon wishlist - I look forward to reading it for sure.

 

[canoeguide]

Since we're talking about F. microcarpa and naming... this is relevant and interesting (and it also mentions retusa vs microcarpa):

How Did Tiger Bark, Kinmen, Golden Gate Ficus Get Their Names?

 

[DonovanC]

Since we're talking about F. microcarpa and naming... this is relevant and interesting (and it also mentions retusa vs microcarpa):

How Did Tiger Bark, Kinmen, Golden Gate Ficus Get Their Names?

Definitely interesting. I have to admit that I did not know that Tiger Bark and Golden Gate where the same cultivar. I was under the impression that Golden Gate Ficus referred to a cultivar with leaves similar to that of retusa, and that this contributed to the microcarpa/retusa confusion. I guess this means I have more to learn lol.
Thanks for sharing!
Edit: Okay, I just realized that I was thinking of the Green Island cultivar, not Golden Gate.

 

[Chuah]

Being newer to bonsai when I started getting into Ficus I suffered a lot of confusion with identifying their varieties. Outside of Willow Leaf/Salicaria I felt like I didn't truly know the ID of any of my other Ficus. I had read a post from Adam Lavigne on his site that started to explain some of the ID confusion, particularly around F. Microcarpa, but it didn't quite get the job done for me.

I just recently bought the new Jerry Meislik book for myself and I'm reading it now. I love the info and guides that he gives about all of the different varieties of Ficus. And in particular he provides some great clarification about F. Microcarpa (and it seems a bulk of our commercial Ficus are just various cultivars of F. Microcarpa). Along with clarifying the mis-use of Retusa.

I wrote a blog on where the names Tiger Bark, Kingman, Golden Gate Ficus come from, which might be of interest to you. They are just one cultivar called by a multitude of names. https://bonsaipenjing.wordpress.com...ark-kinmen-golden-gate-ficus-get-their-names/
One may unsuspectedly buy the same kind of ficus with different nursery trade names if you do not know them, LOL. After publishing the blog, a ficus enthusiast from Spain, Kasu bonsai, suggested I write a blog about Green Island Ficus, another confusing one with round and oblong leaves. Taxonomically, Green Island Ficus is the common name of a totally different species, Ficus pubinervis, which is not used for bonsai.

 

[Chuah]

And, I have Jerry Meislik’s book in my Amazon wishlist - I look forward to reading it for sure.

I suggest you get a paper copy. I bought mine as a Kindle e-book. I find it hard to see the photos clearly, have to enlarge each one and close it, very troublesome. Reading an e-book novel is very convenient but not a book with a lot of illustrations.

 

[DonovanC]

I suggest you get a paper copy. I bought mine as a Kindle e-book. I find it hard to see the photos clearly, have to enlarge each one and close it, very troublesome. Reading an e-book novel is very convenient but not a book with a lot of illustrations.

I can imagine. I prefer paper copies, e-books tend to give me a headache. But either way, I’m really excited to get my hands on it.

 

[DonovanC]

I wrote a blog on where the names Tiger Bark, Kingman, Golden Gate Ficus come from, which might be of interest to you. They are just one cultivar called by a multitude of names. https://bonsaipenjing.wordpress.com...ark-kinmen-golden-gate-ficus-get-their-names/
One may unsuspectedly buy the same kind of ficus with different nursery trade names if you do not know them, LOL. After publishing the blog, a ficus enthusiast from Spain, Kasu bonsai, suggested I write a blog about Green Island Ficus, another confusing one with round and oblong leaves. Taxonomically, Green Island Ficus is the common name of a totally different species, Ficus pubinervis, which is not used for bonsai.

I read this post last night actually, very interesting. Having an understanding of how the common name came about really adds to the fascination. And did you write said blog? I’d be interested in reading it.