fall lime sulphur with leaves still on

bonsai45

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most of my deciduous trees have turned red and the leaves have dropped, but some are still green and only beginning to change color. this weekend will drop and remain below 20F for much of next week. I would like to put my trees into their protective shelter for the winter (where there is light, but temperatures remain 1-2 degrees above freezing). before putting them into this shelter, I would like to spray them with lime sulphur.

is it safe to spray trees that still have leaves on them?

i realize i can remove the leaves and then spray, but my hope is that by leaving them on they will continue their fall-process (post-lime sulphur spray) in their protective shelter

maybe @markyscott has the answer? (thank you for the helpful posts on the subject!) or anybody else? :)

thank you
mike
 

AndyJ

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Hi Mike.

This is a question I’ve been pondering too and am hopeful you’ll get some answers on here soon. Also, what concentration of L/S to water do folks use for this winter spray?

Andy
 

bonsai45

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good morning Andy!

I hope we get an answer! if we are lucky, @Adair M @Leo in N E Illinois @Brian Van Fleet might chime in! I know i’m forgetting names, its been a while since i read about LS and forgot who had the most to say about it other than @markyscott

as for concentarion, as a fungicide going into winter (now) or in early spring (as buds well), people use 1:12 (1 part lime sulphur, 12 parts water).

However, if you are trying to whiten trunks, brian’s blog says to use 1:1 for that purpose.

So i just always use 1:1, which serves my fungicidal needs and simultaneously whitens the trunks

Mike
 

Dav4

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Back when I kept trees in an unheated garage, the leaves of my deciduous trees had fallen away naturally way before they'd get put away (you generally don't want leaves littering your overwintering enclosure). I didn't spray then but I do now, and again, I wait until the leaves are off. So, I'd either wait for the stragglers (that I assume are cold hardy for your climate) to finish dropping their leaves before spraying and winterizing, or you can manually remove them now if they're due to drop soon.
 

markyscott

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if it were me I’d remove the remaining leaves, remove any remaining wiring from the summer, perform fall cut back (unless you plan on doing cutback in spring), spray, and put the trees into winter storage.

s
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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For various reasons, I have never used lime sulfur as a dormant spray, or a spray on any living part of a tree. I have used it to whiten deadwood, but never as a spray or fungicide. So I can not offer advise.

One of my issues, my sources never could give me a starting concentration for the lime sulfur I was purchasing, and the use directions always were ratios, like 1:12 or 1:2 or 1:1 and so forth. Which if you don't know the starting concentration, the dilution ratio can leave you anywhere. I never felt I needed it enough to figure the issue out.

The second issue is the confusing list of which species of trees are sensitive to lime sulfur and which species are not. The fact that it is used at one dilution ratio for trees with leaves and a different concentration for trees without leaves. And if you want to really make yourself question the use of lime sulfur on living tissue, read a list of which grape varieties are sensitive to, and can be killed by lime sulfur and which are not.

For most maladies that lime sulfur "cures" there are other chemicals specific for, most of the issues that lime sulfur treats. So I never bothered to sort out the usage.

I do recognize that lime sulfur has been a common part of the agricultural arsenal since the 18th century. It is just a confusing body of literature regarding how to use it. So I personally haven't bothered to "spin up" on this archaic fungicide / pesticide. If you have experience using it, by all means, keep using it. But I am the wrong person to ask to get the usage down.
 

BobbyLane

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Hi Mike.

This is a question I’ve been pondering too and am hopeful you’ll get some answers on here soon. Also, what concentration of L/S to water do folks use for this winter spray?

Andy

you can get this type of info on bonsai4me. back on the old Europeanbonsai forum, Will baddely recommended spraying while dormant and then again in spring as the buds are swelling and again as the second flush begins to open during the grow season. this was more in regards to fungal issues on elms. i have a bottle handy of dilute LS and use it at these times. works fine for me. just a few drops diluted in a 1L spray bottle, simps

specific doses can be found here although i just drop a few drops in and add water. ive used it with leaves on, i dont use enough LS to cause any whitening. this type of stuff you can experiment with for yourselves on non conspicuous parts of the tree.

 
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Wires_Guy_wires

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I used diluted spray to combat mildew this year. 2mL on a liter of water. It didn't stop the mildew but it didn't hurt the foliage of my english oaks or my magnolias.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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so... it did nothing?
Basically, yes, it did nothing more than keeping me busy.
It might have added some sulfur and calcium/magnesium to the soil, but it had no other visible effect at that concentration.

I have heard and smelt some people spray their entire junipers with it. I bought a chinensis from some French bonsai guy and I wasn't able to get rid of the sulfur smell for about 6 months. That must have been some less diluted stuff, but the trunk was still in a normal color. I've read that Walter Pall uses it at various concentrations, but I don't remember where or when he mentioned that.
 

markyscott

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Here are a couple of links that might help clear things up. It’s pretty straightforward and the dilution rates are discussed in the resources.


I haven’t written one on junipers yet, but I’ll get around to it eventually.

s
 

ysrgrathe

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I used diluted spray to combat mildew this year. 2mL on a liter of water. It didn't stop the mildew but it didn't hurt the foliage of my english oaks or my magnolias.
Try myclobutanil. And 2mL is too little, try 30:1.
 
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