Fall needle thinning for 2-needle pines

[Brian Van Fleet]

Training pines for bonsai is all about creating and maintaining balance. Primarily, this is done with four seasonal techniques:


1. Spring candle-pinching
2. Summer candle-pruning
3. Fall (through spring) needle-thinning
4. Fall bud selection


Needle thinning is part of the balancing act that involves letting the tree get full (dense) enough to gain strength, but not so full that the interior buds weaken or die. Therefore, strong trees are thinned earlier...such as during summer candle-pruning all the way through late fall. Weaker trees are thinned late winter to early spring, so they'll gain strength from the extra time with more foliage.


The process is simple, hold the base of the shoot with one hand, and pull the needle straight out with the other. It's best to start by removing downward-facing needles first, then the large needles that stick out from the profile. Finally, finish the shoot by standing back, and identifying dense areas that need to be thinned further. Generally speaking, leave more needles on the bottom, less on the top.

Here is an example of a Corkbark black pine, Taihei. Very early in development; at a point where I am trying to keep growth close to the trunk, start developing density, so I can begin to wire it soon. Maybe this winter.

before:

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

And after:
(excuse the hand, it was the best shot to compare against the before shot!)

 

[bougie nights]

As always, very good instruction.
I would love to get similar, intensive instruction on Scots pines. I usually wire them in the fall to spread out and get more light into the branches and do some very minimal needle plucking.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Hey Brian, should this technique be used on younger trees as well? Even seedlings? I've got about ten Mikawa seedlings that have very large needles at the top, but lots of budding growth lower down on the trunk that would prove to be very useful in the future.

 

[JudyB]

Thank you as always for being such a great resource for learning here.

I am having trouble getting any (needed) backbudding on my JBP, what would you say is the best course to follow for that. I don't care at all about needle length, just want some buds....

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Grafting!

But really, I know it's a useful technique for getting growth where you need it...beyond that, I'll leave it up for Brian to respond. ;-p

 

[JudyB]

very funny alex!

 

[Poink88]

Thank you as always for being such a great resource for learning here.

I am having trouble getting any (needed) backbudding on my JBP, what would you say is the best course to follow for that. I don't care at all about needle length, just want some buds....

Judy,

How healthy is the tree? How big is the container it is in now? How healthy is the root system? Not an insult, just wondering if the problem is coming from somewhere else.

 

[Dav4]

Thank you as always for being such a great resource for learning here.

I am having trouble getting any (needed) backbudding on my JBP, what would you say is the best course to follow for that. I don't care at all about needle length, just want some buds....

Thinning out the old needles, which allows sun to reach the inside of the branching, along with a good feeding program, should improve backbudding. If that doesn't work, talk to Alex.

 

[JudyB]

I will try to find time to start a thread to get help with this one, don't want to clog up BVF's teaching thing here....

 

[0soyoung]

I will try to find time to start a thread to get help with this one, don't want to clog up BVF's teaching thing here....

Brian VanFleet has published his handy pdf on this forum several times - it is easy to understand and very enlightening. Also there is one of Bjorn's early Bonsai Art of Japan videos that goes through JBP care. These two sources are everything anyone could possibly need except possibly for the ancillary social experience of the forum.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Brian VanFleet has published his handy pdf on this forum several times - it is easy to understand and very enlightening. Also there is one of Bjorn's early Bonsai Art of Japan videos that goes through JBP care. These two sources are everything anyone could possibly need except possibly for the ancillary social experience of the forum.

+10 internet points for "ancillary."

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Bougie nights, thanks...almost no experience with Scots Pine. IBC may have more info, many more European species discussed there.

Alex...it depends. Usually for trees growing out, keep the final branches carefully controlled, growth close to the trunk using candle pruning, etc. let sacrifice branches run out, and remove the lower needles so sacrifice branches' growth is all out at the tips and away from the final branches. Note the recent JBP purchase from Telperion jkd shared was grown that way.

Judy, lets see some photos and we can decide. Dav4 is right on, if the tree is strong. If its weak, leave as much growth as you can, then in the spring, you can prune it hard and force it to backbud between old needles.

oso, thanks for the comments.

 

[JudyB]

Here is a link to a thread started about my pitiful JBP....

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?9075-Japanese-Black-Pine-1-(and-only)

Thanks guys for the answers....

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I had some time last weekend to wire the Taihei and added a series of photos here:
http://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/styling-a-corkbark-black-pine/


The Reader's Digest version:
after-shot of the former front, (still an option) before, and after. Somehow they loaded backwards...

It needs another year or two to show the organization of the pads (and maybe a graft near the apex), but it should advance light years in the next growing season.

 

[garywood]

Looking good Brian! Don't you just love it when a plan starts coming together.

 

[my nellie]

Brian VanFleet has published his handy pdf on this forum several times - ... ...

No matter how I tried I haven't been able to track it. Will you please post a link to the document? Thank you very much.

 

[Vance Wood]

To anyone who needs a bit of clarity on this matter I would suggest a video by Ryan Niel where he goes into this issue and points out what I have been saying around here since this forum came into existence. The standard model of care for two needle Pines has alway been JBP. I have told people that this is not such a good idea with Mugos or Scots Pines.

JBP's will throw a second flush of growth if pinched and needle plucked as described. Mugos and Scots will not. The one Mugo I have documented here a number of times has only had a second flush of growth once in the over forty years I have had it.

The best you can get with Mugos and Scots Pines is a condition where the tree produces a lot of buds for the next season when you can selectively remove those you do not want. Also if you needle pluck in the way many are prone to do with JBP, Mugos and Scots will only produce buds near the tips so in the end you make pom-pom trees; trees where there is a lot of growth on the ends of bare branches.

Ryan Niel video: Also available on this forum, but this was the easiest way to post the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn1FiRw2JBo&feature=player_embedded#t=0s

 

[Poink88]

No matter how I tried I haven't been able to track it. Will you please post a link to the document? Thank you very much.

Check here
http://www.nebaribonsai.com/Nebari_Bonsai/Projects.html

Note that Ryan Neal's method is different and much simpler. Use what works for you best.

 

[my nellie]

Thank you, Dario!