Felt like I had to cut a lot of the rootball

Sugartree

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So I did my first stylizing and potting of a bonsai plant and I figured I had a normal size pot but the Juniper I had must have been in it's pot for many years because the root system reached the bottom of the planters box and it was thick. I feel like I had to cut almost 2/3's of the root system to barely fit it into the pot I had, is that too much to take off? I took the risk of doing it because I really had no option of getting another pot at that time of day.

I'm really over my head in whether this plant will survive because it's root system was so thick I could barely get any new soil into it and more kind of had to just pile around it. I just uploaded a photo, I had to wire it to the side of the pot to keep it from falling over and out of the pot. Not really super happy with the placement in the pot but I was struggling to secure it.

Do you think it will survive?
 

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sorce

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Looks ok.

Less worry...
More water....

Finito!

Sorce
 

Victorim

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Hay bud. Not the best time for root works as you'd be looking for healthy roots going into winter, but done now so best of luck with it.

Also I'd say from raw material roots to pot, you should be looking at what the roots decide as to the size of pot, rather than it's going in this. And you shouldn't struggle to get new soil in and around.

Sorry don't mean to sound so down trodden :/ get some pics up bud, and as I said, best of luck.
 

StoneCloud

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It's a nice tree but like @Victorim said not the best/right time for this. Also with Juni's you usually don't want to take that much root mass off in one shot. Better to go slow with them for the health of the tree.

Suggestion: The wire you have wrapped around the trunk should have something buffering it so it doesn't dig into the bark. If you have a piece of rubber tube that would be ideal, if not find something rubber, loosen the wire and put it between the trunk and the wire.

It will be a week, maybe even a few weeks before you'll really know which direction it's headed. They are tricky like that and can be dead/dying for a while before you will see the signs. Don't go chopping any foliage off now either, won't be good.

If it doesn't make it, no stress lesson learned. Literally everyone that takes up bonsai kills trees part of the learning process. Keep us updated !
 

M. Frary

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I took the risk of doing it because I really had no option of getting another pot at that time of day.
It didn't really have to go into a pot right then. Did It?
2/3 is a lot off but what's done is done. Keep up on misting the foliage and get it into dappled shade for a while to see how it responds.
You have plenty of time before winter for the roots to heal.
 

Sugartree

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Here is the proper way to secure a tree into its pot. If you want it to live, don't move it. Normally, repot in spring.
https://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2016/02/27/preparing-a-pot-draft/

I tried to put the wire through the bottom and wrap it around the rootball but due to the shape and the top of heaviness of the tree it wasn't able to keep it in place. That's why I did another wire around the pot.

I went off the advice of someone on the forum saying you can pretty much do whatever you want to a juniper this time of year but it was my bad since upon reading one of my bonsai books now it says not to do it in the summer.
 

sorce

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my bad since upon reading one of my bonsai books now it says not to do it in the summer.

F them books....

What is your location?
Looks desert.?

You gotta be confident this tree will be fine so you don't eff with it anymore.

I cut off way more roots than that on one of mine and threw it in full sun a couple weeks back when it was hot as dickens.....

Of course....it was 120% humidity too...

But as long as you keep it Watered it WILL be fine!

Sorce
 

Brian Van Fleet

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I tried to put the wire through the bottom and wrap it around the rootball but due to the shape and the top of heaviness of the tree it wasn't able to keep it in place. That's why I did another wire around the pot.

I went off the advice of someone on the forum saying you can pretty much do whatever you want to a juniper this time of year but it was my bad since upon reading one of my bonsai books now it says not to do it in the summer.
It is due to technique that you weren't able to keep it in place. Study up, practice, and you'll be able to pick up every tree you own by the trunk and keep the pot in place.
On advice: bad advice is free and abundant. Find someone in your climate who has trees you admire, and follow theirs.
6174601376_IMG_8175.JPG 6174601376_IMG_8176.JPG 6174601376_IMG_8177.JPG
 

Bonsai Nut

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I'm really over my head in whether this plant will survive because it's root system was so thick I could barely get any new soil into it and more kind of had to just pile around it. I just uploaded a photo, I had to wire it to the side of the pot to keep it from falling over and out of the pot. Not really super happy with the placement in the pot but I was struggling to secure it.

Do you think it will survive?

Good news is that this is an art where you learn a lot by "doing". You have learned a lot about the problems with moving a nursery tree into a bonsai pot. In addition to the advice about the time of year, many people will often take two steps to move a tree from a nursery pot into a bonsai pot. The first step is to get it out of the nursery pot and untangle the roots as much as possible, while moving it into a good bonsai mix in a oversized, flat container. This first step can be stressful for the tree, so you don't eliminate many roots except the absolute worst ones. The focus is to not kill the tree via root stress. Then after a year or two when the tree is recovered and showing strong growth, you can move it into a bonsai pot and clean up the roots a little more.

Note that a lot depends on species. A strong deciduous tree can put up with a lot more abuse than, for example, a pine would tolerate.

Now that you have repotted your tree it is critical that you provide it the proper transplanting care. As Brian pointed out, you really want to anchor your tree through the bottom holes in the pot. Almost all bonsai pots come with big holes in the bottom for drainage, and small holes in the bottom for you to run wires through to use to secure your tree. Usually, even after transplanting, with a little caution you can still push a wire up through the wire hole in the pot. Push two ends of a wire up through two different holes, and then tie them up and over the root ball of your tree to anchor it. You really don't want it to be able to shift - at all - because it will interfere with proper root development. If the tree keeps shifting back and forth, no small roots will form outside of the original root ball.

img_1368-001.jpg

Given everything you have mentioned about your experience with this tree, I would be really cautious about placing this tree in full sun until it has recovered and you see fresh buds popping. This may not be until next spring. Let the tree be your guide and listen to what it tells you. If the roots are compromised, err on the side of caution.
 

f1pt4

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I don't know how much foliage it had before the repot, but I was once told if you prune a shit load of roots from a juniper, you need to prune a shit load of canopy as well.

I don't have many junipers. 2 to be exact. I used to have 3. but the 3rd I didn't prune off enough foliage to compensate for the collected roots. That's why I have two now.

And mist mist mist mist mist mist mist that foliage. Keep it in the shade. Give it a fighting chance.
 

Bonsai Nut

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I was once told if you prune a shit load of roots from a juniper, you need to prune a shit load of canopy as well.

This is because you need to balance the roots' ability to provide water to the foliage, with the foliage's transpiration rate. There are several ways you can do this:

(1) Reduce the foliage mass.
(2) Mist the foliage.
(3) Put the tree in a greenhouse or humidity tent.
(4) Put the tree in shade and protect it from wind.

With collected junipers here in Southern California, for many the "best practice" involves building a humidity tent around the tree made from translucent plastic and allowing it to get sun early in the day only. Misting is also recommended. You have to be careful about reducing foliage too much since the tree needs the foliage to provide carbs to the tree for root development. If you reduce the foliage too much you may find yourself in a downward spiral where the tree is simply too weak to recover, or you set yourself back years in the development cycle.

So in a perfect world, you would like to keep as much foliage as possible, but you have to make sure it doesn't have high transpiration. Easier said than done.
 
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Sugartree

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Thanks for all the advice, I'm pretty bummed out with this situation because I liked the design of the tree I made but the whole potting situation seemed to kind of foil it.

Now that you have repotted your tree it is critical that you provide it the proper transplanting care. As Brian pointed out, you really want to anchor your tree through the bottom holes in the pot. Almost all bonsai pots come with big holes in the bottom for drainage, and small holes in the bottom for you to run wires through to use to secure your tree. Usually, even after transplanting, with a little caution you can still push a wire up through the wire hole in the pot. Push two ends of a wire up through two different holes, and then tie them up and over the root ball of your tree to anchor it. You really don't want it to be able to shift - at all - because it will interfere with proper root development. If the tree keeps shifting back and forth, no small roots will form outside of the original root ball.

The pot I put it into was a plastic bosnai pot with two drainage holes which I ran a piece of wire through to wrap over the root ball but I either did it wrong (I don't see how I could have it was just an awkward shaped root ball) or it needs more wire to secure it because it would not have stayed in it's current place without some wire securing it to the side of the pot. Currently the tree can rock a little bit if I try moving it. I'm thinking if maybe putting it back into a planters pot might be best, I just won't be able to get more bonsai soil for a couple days.

Current suggestions I have gather it to just keep watering and to place it in shade, is there anything else I can do on my part to save the tree?
 
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Mike Corazzi

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I was "advised" on here that my ...unseasonal.. repot would die, too.

Hmm.... it didn't. It thrived. Just take good care of it.

Trees WANT to live. They'll try harder than a lot of people think. :p
 

Bonsai Nut

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I was "advised" on here that my ...unseasonal.. repot would die, too.

No one is saying the tree is going to die. They are all saying it is the wrong season to repot a juniper, because it is.

Assuming this tree lives, as I hope it does, that does not mean everyone should go out and start repotting their junipers in the depth of summer. :) It means that instead of having a 99.9% chance of survival, when done properly in the right season, the tree had a 75% or 60% or 50% chance of survival and the owner was fortunate.

I don't think anyone is trying to score ego points by telling people when they did something wrong. I think they are just trying to help the person avoid mistakes in the future. As I like to say - you can't make a mistake in bonsai that I haven't already made :) So why not take advantage of people's advice, and save yourself 20 years of education by trial and error?

The only thing I will add is that it is better to ask for advice BEFORE you do something :) Note there is another thread started today by @Jasonbonsainw where he asks "what do I do next"? That is a better approach than to jump in and do something first, ask for advice, and then regret what you just did :)

Been there, done that.
 

Bonsai Nut

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Thanks for all the advice, I'm pretty bummed out with this situation because I liked the design of the tree I made but the whole potting situation seemed to kind of foil it.

As Mike said, there is no guarantee the tree is going to die. Just protect it from sun and wind, and water the FOLIAGE frequently. Be careful not to overwater the SOIL because the roots will not be taking up a lot of water in the short term and you don't want the roots sitting in standing water. It is very easy to overwater a newly repotted tree. By watering or misting the foliage you are reducing transpiration from the tree and lowering the rate of demand for water from the roots - giving the roots a little bit of a break.

To anchor a tree in a bonsai pot you need at least four points of anchorage. If you just tie a tree in by using the two main drainage holes, the tree will be held down at two points only and will still be able to rock side to side. If that is a plastic pot, you can drill holes in the bottom with a drill, or if you like to live dangerously, you can poke them in with an awl or ice pick. You really want the tree to be so securely anchored that you can pick up the bonsai by the tree and the pot will come up with it. It isn't just a question of root development - I don't know how frequently on this site you will hear people talking about how their tree was "knocked out of the pot" by high winds, or a cat, or a squirrel, etc. The first question that immediately comes to mind is "why wasn't the tree secured in the pot?" :)
 

Sugartree

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I went back and drilled some holes in the bottom of the plastic pot and wired it more securely so now there is technically 6 points of anchorage. I'm still not happy with how it's standing in the pot as I think there was some old big roots I cut unevenly and it making it a bit lopsided but it's secure where it's at right now. I've also put it in shade so that it only gets morning sun.

How long will it take for me to notice if the tree is surviving or if it's dying? What will be the signs?
 

sorce

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More sun!

More water!

Location? Desert?

Sorce
 

Bonsai Nut

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How long will it take for me to notice if the tree is surviving or if it's dying? What will be the signs?

If it is dying, you will not see any new growth and the foliage will turn a faded, greyish green color and become brittle.

If it is surviving the foliage will remain green and supple, and you will start to see new growth from the branch tips.
 
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