Fertilizer Question

Lochamp

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Hi,
Newbie question here from someone just getting into pines and more seriously into bonsai generally.

I watched the video from Ryan Neil on JBP/JRP care and in it he mentions to feed 3-4 times in the spring before candle cutting and 2x in the fall.

My question: what exactly does he mean here? Is this referring to liquid or solid fertilizer? I assume solid, and if that is the case, even if you use the cakes or diy tea bags with something like plant tone, doesn't it just feed continuously? Or is the point to change out the fertilizer after each period (if I remember Ryan recommends 4-6 weeks between feedings)? Hope that made sense.

Thanks for the help. Love the forum and this is my first posting.
 

jimib

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I think he’s talking about stopping fertilizing, particularly nitrogen, in the beginning of May so the nitrogen can be gone by the time the pine starts to candle. This way the candles will be be shorter. Something like that I believe
 

atlarsenal

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He uses Biogold. He did a detailed “Fertilizer 101” steam June 28. Check it out.
 

Lochamp

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Thanks for the advice. I bought a group of 5 seedlings (3x jbp/2x jrp) and starting to learn about them more. I've been mostly into deciduous until recently, and definitely appreciate your help everyone.
 

sorce

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Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce
 

augustine

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There are some organic ferts that are readily available in nurseries and big box stores like Espoma brand Hollytone, Plantone and Cottonseed Meal. Hollytone is for acid loving plants - suitable for pines.
 
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In the Bonsai Empire classes, Bjorn suggests a 9:1 mix of cottonseed meal and kelp powder in tea bags. I really like this mix because it's the only organic ferts I've found that my dog has no interest in eating and that the raccoons and squirrels leave alone. I supplement with weekly doses of fish emulsion. Gotta put the dog up for that until it dries out though. Caught her trying to lap it up out of my swampy BC flat. Ugh.
 

augustine

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Cheap,

Do you know if Bjorn uses the cottonseed meal/kelp fertilizer mix for just pines/acid lovers or for everything?

Thank you
 
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Cheap,

Do you know if Bjorn uses the cottonseed meal/kelp fertilizer mix for just pines/acid lovers or for everything?

Thank you

As I recall he recommends it as a fairly universal fert. He likes Sumo Cake brand as a commercial choice but recommends the cottonseed kelp mix if cakes aren't available. Our club meeting next week is at his nursery and I was planning on asking him more about it then.
 

augustine

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Great, thank you and please share additional information,
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I only use liquid chemical fertilizers. Main reason is the organics attract animals in my yard. Second reason, organics rarely provide sufficient nitrogen for good growth. A good modern fertilizer, will provide all the macro and micro nutrients. I use formulas based on the Michigan State University public domain formulas. Dyna gro has something similar. I alternate between an MSU based Cal-Mag supplementing ''pro plug'' formula and once or twice a month a acidic fertilizer formulated for blueberries. Key is to keep concentrations relatively low, I usually use 120 ppm as Nitrogen or 70 ppm as nitrogen, and then fertilize relatively frequently during the time periods you want fertilizer available.

Key in Ryan Neil's fertilizer program is the timing of when he fertilizes. To get tight growth you must stop fertilizing when he says you need to. Key is to get good fertilization in during the late summer, when the tree if forming new buds for next year.

Brand of fertilizer is not too important.
 

Lazylightningny

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At this time I'm using the Dr. Earth's organic fertilizers, available at HD, using Ryan Neil's protocol. Been using it for 2 years. My plants are all in the growth stage, not ready for slowing growth yet, except on one tree in which I'm withholding fertilizers until the leaves harden.
 

Shibui

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Thanks for the advice. I bought a group of 5 seedlings (3x jbp/2x jrp)
Important to recognise there is a big difference between feeding and techniques for advanced bonsai and developing stock.
Techniques for young trees are aimed at maximum growth to give a good trunk and framework - feed continuously, no candle cutting and only occasional pruning.
Candle cutting, reduced fertiliser and other pine techniques are aimed at producing short growth for ramification and smaller needles for proportion. These techniques are designed to slow down growth and that's not really what you want when starting with seedlings.
 
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Great, thank you and please share additional information,

I had a chance to speak with Bjorn last night about the cottonseed meal mix I referenced earlier. He said its a good universal organic mix for both deciduous and conifers and is a good alternative to animal based organics if you have problems with dogs eating it (like I do). He also recommends using liquid kelp alongside it as a foliar spray. He said this method works a bit better with finished trees or trees relatively through development. For trees that youre still growing and trying to thicken up trunks he uses an inorganic liquid 10-10-10 or 20-20-20 mixed per instructions. Most of his stuff looked to be Dynagrow brand.
 

Ali Raza

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Important to recognise there is a big difference between feeding and techniques for advanced bonsai and developing stock.
Techniques for young trees are aimed at maximum growth to give a good trunk and framework - feed continuously, no candle cutting and only occasional pruning.
Candle cutting, reduced fertiliser and other pine techniques are aimed at producing short growth for ramification and smaller needles for proportion. These techniques are designed to slow down growth and that's not really what you want when starting with seedlings.
Good Piece of advice
 
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