Ficus Akadama Repot Leaf Drop

[Aryto]

Amazing insight thank you! My new substrate is from bonsai.ch, and it's their house blend of Akadama/lava rock, its super free draining. I've been doing a similar thing with my grow light, but turning it off a little later at about 10:30pm at the moment. The previous greenkeeper in me likes that you fertilise a lot! I am holding off from fertilising now though, as I heard I should wait for signs of new growth before fertilising..

Some people say Ficus really don't like to be moved around, interesting that you bring them out to the sun.

Is wiring very supple branches stressful to the plant? I was planning to do a really thorough re-wire if it dropped all its leaves, as I can finally see the shape really well. But if that will stress it further then perhaps I should not..

In your case I wouldn't do anything at least until summer and the new growth has somewhat hardened off.

As for wiring, it si indeed easier when there are no leaves. However, wiring with leaves on is possible (I do it on shohin). You just have to be very delicate so that you do not rip off the green.

I know bonsai.ch but I have never ordered anything from them. I used to order bonsai stuff at bonsaipflege.ch, but they are not operating at the moment. There is a small bonsai nursery in Oron-la-Ville (Fribourg) which has akadama, pouzzolane (lava) and kiryu (pumice), but I don't know if that is close to you.

I also order at bonsai.de (Germany) or Bonsaiplaza (Netherlands), but do it only occasionally since there are import taxes. I buy trees and pots there.

Miguel

 

[Ed_Inc]

In your case I wouldn't do anything at least until summer and the new growth has somewhat hardened off.

Does that include fertilising?

As for wiring, it si indeed easier when there are no leaves. However, wiring with leaves on is possible (I do it on shohin). You just have to be very delicate so that you do not rip off the green.

I know bonsai.ch but I have never ordered anything from them. I used to order bonsai stuff at bonsaipflege.ch, but they are not operating at the moment. There is a small bonsai nursery in Oron-la-Ville (Fribourg) which has akadama, pouzzolane (lava) and kiryu (pumice), but I don't know if that is close to you.

I also order at bonsai.de (Germany) or Bonsaiplaza (Netherlands), but do it only occasionally since there are import taxes. I buy trees and pots there.

Miguel

I mentioned on the previous page, but I did a good bit of wiring before the repot, now I can see the shape more clearly I have more ideas, but they will have to wait!

They were friendly ovber the phone when they said the pot I ordered was out of stock for 2 weeks. And the soil mix was reasonably priced at 9CHF for a medium sized bag (other websites that imported were 40+CHF for similar). Only downside was I needed to sift it myself.

Unfortunately I am in the Lucerne region so that's a bit of a drive away!

 

[Carol 83]

I had a willow leaf fig do this to me this year and it sat leafless for two months,

Mine does that every year.....

 

[Paradox]

@Ed_Inc Surprised no one has said this yet, but please put your location in your profile so that we dont need to try and remember and ask you again.

When you repot any tree, particularly when you are going from some kind of soil to a bigger particle, more inorganic mix such as akadama, the watering requirements will change for a time. The soil will be more open and more prone to drying at first so you need to watch the watering.
It is important to water when the tree needs it and not on a set schedule.

I have also had a ficus lose all its leaves and they came back after a few weeks.

I will also reiterate that repotting a ficus in the winter is too soon. I typically repot mine in the last week of June/first week of July

I keep mine in my basement under lights during the winter and they seem to appreciate that. I use a 16 hour light cycle.

 

[Ed_Inc]

@Ed_Inc Surprised no one has said this yet, but please put your location in your profile so that we dont need to try and remember and ask you again.

When you repot any tree, particularly when you are going from some kind of soil to a bigger particle, more inorganic mix such as akadama, the watering requirements will change for a time. The soil will be more open and more prone to drying at first so you need to watch the watering.
It is important to water when the tree needs it and not on a set schedule.

I have also had a ficus lose all its leaves and they came back after a few weeks.

I will also reiterate that repotting a ficus in the winter is too soon. I typically repot mine in the last week of June/first week of July

I keep mine in my basement under lights during the winter and they seem to appreciate that. I use a 16 hour light cycle.

Done

I have been watching the tree closely for water, granted it is harder to tell, but I am going by the general colour of the akadama around the top. It seems like the lower levels aren't really drying out fast so I *think* it's okay. I know my tree decently and think I'm doing okay, it handled both periods of little water and periods of lots of water well the last year. I'm trying to find that balance of not overwatering as some have mentioned after a repot, and keeping it well watered enough for the current growing (or lack of!) state.

Any story of a Ficus regaining its lost leaves is an encouragement for me! Once I see the fresh shoots I will be happy. I will remember the repotting schedule for next year for sure. After some advice here I will do a more aggressive root prune next summer too. Even looking back at the photo of the tree I posted at the start of this thread makes me sad with how much growth it has lost

The tree has been getting about 11h of natural light and 16h of supplemented light since saturday (before then it was just the natural).

 

[Paradox]

Done

I have been watching the tree closely for water, granted it is harder to tell, but I am going by the general colour of the akadama around the top. It seems like the lower levels aren't really drying out fast so I *think* it's okay. I know my tree decently and think I'm doing okay, it handled both periods of little water and periods of lots of water well the last year. I'm trying to find that balance of not overwatering as some have mentioned after a repot, and keeping it well watered enough for the current growing (or lack of!) state.

Any story of a Ficus regaining its lost leaves is an encouragement for me! Once I see the fresh shoots I will be happy. I will remember the repotting schedule for next year for sure. After some advice here I will do a more aggressive root prune next summer too. Even looking back at the photo of the tree I posted at the start of this thread makes me sad with how much growth it has lost

The tree has been getting about 11h of natural light and 16h of supplemented light since saturday (before then it was just the natural).

My comment with regard to watering was more about making sure to water enough because newly repotted soil will dry faster.
With an open soil you dont need to worry about overwatering as much. Stick a chopstick into the soil and water when its almost dry in the middle.

I use akadama, lava and pumice for my ficus and I dont worry about overwatering at all

 

[Ed_Inc]

My comment with regard to watering was more about making sure to water enough.
With an open soil you dont need to worry about overwatering as much.

I use akadama, lava and pumice for my ficus and I dont worry about overwatering at all

Even directly after a butchered repot?

I was thinking that it seems very difficult to overwater akadama mix, as once akadama is saturated any additional water will just run through the pot.

 

[Ed_Inc]

Stick a chopstick into the soil and water when its almost dry in the middle.

With regards to this.. how does this work with akadama/open soils? The chopstick either gets stuck on some lava rock or just goes in, and doesn't have much indication of how moist the surrounding soil is, as there isn't a great deal of contact, if that makes sense.

 

[Lutonian]

I learned this last year, as soon as the temps are up a bit he'll be heading back outside. The night time temps are still around freezing at the moment here. Once there are signs of fresh growth would wiring be okay?

I did some moderate wiring before potting it, perhaps that added to the stress.. I didn't realise wiring stressed the plant!

I wire my figs when I see good growth extensions and the tree is healthy. I will put my figs outside when night time temperatures will not drop below around 7 to 10 centigrade, just make sure to slowly move them to full sun to stop leaf burn.

In regards to stressing the tree every action we take is a stress, repotting, incorrect watering, pruning, keeping the tree in a pot even fertilizing if over done. The key is to not apply too many stresses at once, tree are tough and adaptable, they have evolved mechanisms to cope with certain stress like new growth after pruning etc..

Learning how far you can go will take time and experience.

 

[Paradox]

With regards to this.. how does this work with akadama/open soils? The chopstick either gets stuck on some lava rock or just goes in, and doesn't have much indication of how moist the surrounding soil is, as there isn't a great deal of contact, if that makes sense.

Just try it. It works. Lots of people use chopsticks in the soil as a soil moisture indicator.
You leave it in the soil so it gets wet when you water. It is not used like a probe where you stick it in the soil then remove it.
There is contact with the surrounding soil and it is a good indicator of soil moisture.
It will dry out at about the same rate as the surrounding soil. The key is to make sure it is stuck in there well.
It doesnt have to be all the way to the bottom but 3/4 of the way is good.
If you dont have chopsticks, a piece of a small diameter dowel works too

 

[Ed_Inc]

I wire my figs when I see good growth extensions and the tree is healthy. I will put my figs outside when night time temperatures will not drop below around 7 to 10 centigrade, just make sure to slowly move them to full sun to stop leaf burn.

In regards to stressing the tree every action we take is a stress, repotting, incorrect watering, pruning, keeping the tree in a pot even fertilizing if over done. The key is to not apply too many stresses at once, tree are tough and adaptable, they have evolved mechanisms to cope with certain stress like new growth after pruning etc..

Learning how far you can go will take time and experience.

I'm looking forward to the warmer weather, the tree really liked going outsude last spring (in England at that point). I'm learning lots and hope the tree makes it through my current mistakes so I can learn more!

Just try it. It works. Lots of people use chopsticks in the soil as a soil moisture indicator.
You leave it in the soil so it gets wet when you water. It is not used like a probe where you stick it in the soil then remove it.
There is contact with the surrounding soil and it is a good indicator of soil moisture.
It will dry out at about the same rate as the surrounding soil. The key is to make sure it is stuck in there well.
It doesnt have to be all the way to the bottom but 3/4 of the way is good.
If you dont have chopsticks, a piece of a small diameter dowel works too

Oh you leave it in! The way it has always been mentioned is that you use it like a probe, but leaving it in makes much more sense!

 

[Ed_Inc]

2 Week update:

It carried on losing more leaves, but it seems like it has really slowed down now. It has probably lost about 80-90% total. One small branch has died off (but I almost pruned it off beforehand anyway as I didn't like it, so it's been decided for me ).

I think the first signs of growth are starting.. with one new leaf about to emerge:



There are stipules all over that have not died off, but they haven't really done much the last 2 weeks. However this one has started to open.

I've got a new more permanent lamp now, however it does bring the bulb closer, and I'm wondering if it's too close. The bulb is 7W, it puts out next to no heat (it does get warm itself though). Do you guys think the bulb is too close now? If heat isn't an issue is there any risk of burning with an LED lamp being too close?



The oak saplings have been loving the grow light though!

 

[Paradox]

Yup starting to bounce back.
I dont think the light is too close at this point
Keep an eye on it and see how it goes

 

[Ed_Inc]

Yup starting to bounce back.
I dont think the light is too close at this point
Keep an eye on it and see how it goes

When do you think it's wise to start fertilising him? I've got a pretty standard 4.6.6 bonsai feed from the nursary.

Man I miss the 46.0.0 we used to use for aggressive re-growth on the golf course

 

[HorseloverFat]

When do you think it's wise to start fertilising him? I've got a pretty standard 4.6.6 bonsai feed from the nursary.

Man I miss the 46.0.0 we used to use for aggressive re-growth on the golf course

46.0.0!!!!!???? That’s like chicken poo!!

I use standard fish emulsion (5-5-1 2-5-2) for EVERYTHING.. (when outside! ) With granular “tending to” any specific nutrient needs..

The Granular I use with my Ficus trees is 15-9-12... Osmocote, actually....

Others will have different schedules/concentrations..

One of the LEAST smart things you can do is dump a bunch of fert on a struggling tree... But I lack the specific knowledge to say “when” you should begin fertilizing... I, personally, would say, “when it’s healthy”

But someone else will provide even better information, most likely.

 

[Ed_Inc]

46.0.0!!!!!???? That’s like chicken poo!!

I use standard fish emulsion (5-5-1 2-5-2) for EVERYTHING.. (when outside! ) With granular “tending to” any specific nutrient needs..

The Granular I use with my Ficus trees is 15-9-12... Osmocote, actually....

Others will have different schedules/concentrations..

One of the LEAST smart things you can do is dump a bunch of fert on a struggling tree... But I lack the specific knowledge to say “when” you should begin fertilizing... I, personally, would say, “when it’s healthy”

But someone else will provide even better information, most likely.

You could practically see grass growing, absolutely insane. Was a pain to cut the greens after using it though, you have to empty the boxes every bloody green or even multiple times per green! My dad used to use sulphate of ammonia on our lawn at home too.. maybe loving fertiliser is in my blood

I've only got the one tree, so liquid is good for me. I did it every week last year during growing season, and it responded well..

Looks like I'll definitely be waiting at least a few weeks before giving him some of the good stuff.

He's on the upward curve now for sure! No dropped leaves in a few days, even the discoloured ones when I try and persuade them off. And that little leaf opened up overnight

 

[HorseloverFat]

You could practically see grass growing, absolutely insane. Was a pain to cut the greens after using it though, you have to empty the boxes every bloody green or even multiple times per green! My dad used to use sulphate of ammonia on our lawn at home too.. maybe loving fertiliser is in my blood

I've only got the one tree, so liquid is good for me. I did it every week last year during growing season, and it responded well..

Looks like I'll definitely be waiting at least a few weeks before giving him some of the good stuff.

He's on the upward curve now for sure! No dropped leaves in a few days, even the discoloured ones when I try and persuade them off. And that little leaf opened up overnight

Haha! For some reason I thought of Hank Hill. ..that’s DEFINITELY not a bad thing.

Remembering that Leaves (Or more specifically, “what leaves do”) “draw” water from your soil to (hopefully) be utilized correctly, constructing sugars and carbohydrates (when they “high five” the sun) to be distributed (hopefully) effectively through out the specimen....

...eventually, when very healthy, this process will become... “sensical”.., deliberate.. easy to predict.. this means your plant has balanced its uptake of oxygen and water, and reached a comfort...

THEN you fertilize the lil’ bastards!

 

[Ed_Inc]

Hello everyone! 3 week update coming in hot.

The tree is recovering amazingly now. I think the grow light really saved the tree. Every branch has new shoots opening up, some branches are starting to back bud too, and literally just the one small branch died off in this whole process. You can just *feel* the tree is happy now, as strange as that sounds! I'll attach some pics at the bottom.

I've got a few questions going forward now. Regarding the older leaves that managed to cling on to the tree, some of them are pretty big and in places I'd prefer them not. Once the new leaves have grown out, would it be okay to prune off some/most of the old leaves? Some of them are partially discoloured too from *almost* being shed by the tree, so they don't look great.

After some general large stress, like this tree suffered, when can I start to prune some branches? Mostly just a few inches off some of the longer branches to keep the shape in check.

Just trying to get an estimate on the timeline of when I can do things to the tree! And I obviously want to let it fully recover. And don't worry @HorseloverFat, I won't fertilise just yet

 

[Carol 83]

Hello everyone! 3 week update coming in hot.

The tree is recovering amazingly now. I think the grow light really saved the tree. Every branch has new shoots opening up, some branches are starting to back bud too, and literally just the one small branch died off in this whole process. You can just *feel* the tree is happy now, as strange as that sounds! I'll attach some pics at the bottom.

I've got a few questions going forward now. Regarding the older leaves that managed to cling on to the tree, some of them are pretty big and in places I'd prefer them not. Once the new leaves have grown out, would it be okay to prune off some/most of the old leaves? Some of them are partially discoloured too from *almost* being shed by the tree, so they don't look great.

After some general large stress, like this tree suffered, when can I start to prune some branches? Mostly just a few inches off some of the longer branches to keep the shape in check.

Just trying to get an estimate on the timeline of when I can do things to the tree! And I obviously want to let it fully recover. And don't worry @HorseloverFat, I won't fertilise just yet

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Looking good, glad it's recovering nicely for you.