Crap, First off Wigert's is a BONSAI Nursery, not a "nursery grower" I wish you could point out some references to the statements you made in the above post. Like, how many "nursery growers" did you poll to learn they use organics as they are "cheaper" and remember we are talking about BONSAI growers here. Also, Wigert's trees are indeed in Bonsai soil which happens to contain thirds organics (pine bark).
Please clarify this gem "Tropical bonsai is not the same as traditional Japanese bonsai" so you are saying the Japanese do not traditionally work with tropicals. I guess someone forgot to mention this to the Japanese....
Lastly, anyone with a grain of horticultural experience would realize one does not " treat a Ficus the way you treat a Pine, Juniper, or Maple. " As a matter of fact one would not treat any of those species the same way, get real man I doubt there are people waiting to decandle their Maple or trunk chop their JBP.
I do not understand either how you came up with this cute retort to my post. I never made any of these off topic points? I mentioned organics to keep the soil moist longer in heat, requiring less effort to keep plants from drying out. The reason most BONSAI nursery growers use organics in the mix they use.
Perhaps you should get your "mind so wrapped up" on the topic you comment on in the future .
ed
Erik Wigert is a nursery grower, he own's and operates Wigert's Bonsai.
Old Florida Bonsai is a bonsai nursery owned and operated by Richard and JJ Turner.
Dragontree is a bonsai nursery owned and operated by Robert Pinder.
Adam Lavigne is a bonsai artist and operates a bonsai nursery from his backyard; also good personal friends with Erik Wigert.
Jason Schley owns and operates Schley's Bonsai.
Mike Cartrett owns and operates Palm Beach Bonsai.
David VanBuskirk owns and operates D&L Bonsai Nursery.
Jim Smith owns and operates Durastone Nursery.
I don't know the name of Mike Rogers' nursery, but he also operates a bonsai nursery.
Wigert's, Schley's, and D&L have the highest prices are grow the majority of their pre-bonsai stock in bonsai mix. Pretty sure all three use the "standard Florida mix" as we call it; Turface, Pine Bark, and Lava Rock 1:1:1
Old Florida, Dragontree, Adam Lavigne, Mike Rogers, Durastone and Palm Beach have the majority of the pre-bonsai stock in an organic mix. They grow the same quality plants, and charge a significantly lower price.
It is much cheaper to pot 500 plants in an organic mix, than in any "bonsai mix". The ingredients in bonsai mixes are much more expensive than an organic mix. This is not uncommon practice in bonsai nurseries. These are all local Florida bonsai nursery growers. I don't know how much clearer I need to be here.
And no, the Japanese do not typically work with tropicals. The Southeastern Asian countries do, but they are not Japanese. Traditional Japanese bonsai is strict. Ben Oki once said that Brazillian Rain Tree could not be used for bonsai, literally saying "no good for bonsai"; until he saw Jim Moody's. That is the general attitude of traditional Japanese bonsai on the idea of tropical bonsai. The Japanese grow their trees differently than they do in the Philippines, Taiwan, Indonesia and South China. Look how much show stopping tropical bonsai comes from these regions and then show me some traditional Japanese bonsai artists using tropicals. Key word is Traditional. Kimura is no way a traditionalist; but he does not even work with tropicals. Traditional Japanese bonsai does not use tropical trees and I don't think any Japanese show has a "Tropical" category but they do have "Evergreen", "Broadleaf", "Flowering", "Deciduous" (I could be wrong on this one).
The statement about not treating a ficus the same way as pine, maple, or juniper was to reiterate the fact that traditional Japanese bonsai is not the same as tropical bonsai. It was obviously (or not so obviously) implying the fact that the Japanese methods do not always apply to tropical species. Growing "tropical" bonsai indoors is also not the same as what we do here in Florida, or any of those South Eastern Asian counties where our trees are outdoors all year.
My point on the soil is; it does not matter what you grow your trees in. Jim Smith is known as the best North American Tropical Bonsai artist, and he grows his trees in 100% Turface. From Ficus, Buttonwood, Bougainvillea, to Simpson Stopper, Gumbo Limbo, and Baobab. It all grows in Turface with no organics and the same heat. Like I said in that other thread, I don't consider the phrase "bonsai mix" to be an organic mix. When I think organic mix I think of something like Peat Moss, Washed Sand, and Pine Bark 1:1:1. It's totally organic, so its an organic mix. Turface, Lava, Pine Bark 1:1:1 is mostly inorganic; I call it inorganic. It's semantics. It really is.
What you did say was, "The plant is in a heavy organic mix now and it seems to enjoy it, probably Dragon Tree finds it easier to keep them healthy in your heat with an organic mix. I know most Florida growers rely heavy on organics for this very reason." And in reality, it doesn't matter as far as keeping the soil wet or the trees like to grow in dirt more than clay; it's simply because its cheaper. You can buy Buttonwood from Old Florida bonsai that are fifteen inches tall, three inches wide, and growing in a fourteen inch bulb pan for almost a third of the price what it would cost at Wigert's. Because Old Florida grows their pre-bonsai in organic soil vs. Wigert who grows his in inorganic bonsai mix. It's not a matter of who grows better trees at all; its a matter of who has less cost in each of their trees. Its simple economics. When I say "don't get your mind wrapped up on soil mixes"; its because a tree will grow in any substrate as long as you water it according to that substrate and the trees needs. To be honest, the only reason I use anything mixed with anything is because it looks better than straight Turface; except with my Buttonwood and Cypress.
Lastly; you were saying that it would be best to layer the trunk and create a new nebari. My point about Jim Smith and repotting is that with a ficus, no matter what the roots look like under or above the soil line; you can cut them all off without affecting the tree's health. There is absolutely no need to layer the trunk, and I'm sure that when the soil is washed from the tree, those circling roots are coming from the bottom of the trunk and easily removed anyhow. Again, tropicals are not like Japanese bonsai. Black Pine; all of the vigor is stored in the roots and when you repot, you have to be very delicate. Treating it the way we do Tropicals during repotting will kill it and the same goes for Maple and Juniper. Thats the problem with circling roots in traditional Japanese bonsai; you can't simply go in and cut them all out the way you can with a tropical bonsai. That was my whole point.
I really don't have time to keep going through this with you anytime I post in the same thread as you Ed, but when I see something as misinformed, I want to correct it.
And yes, I mean Jim Smith who runs Durastone. His pre-bonsai are grown in an organic medium, because again, its cheaper. His personal trees are grown in 100% Turface. The entire Heathcote collection of 100 trees are all in Turface.
