Field Grow project - using those old CD's!

Brad in GR

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Waiting on a landscaping contractor to build me a bonsai garden - gravel with raised beds surrounding... by that time many of my deciduous will have popped! Into the ground for these which are mostly saplings (~2 years):
Bur Oak
Swamp White Oak
Douglas Fir
Dawn Redwood
Bald Cypress
Red Maple
American Beech
European Beech

And tomorrow will add the final tree, a 1.5 inch trident maple after some root work. After this pic, added a little mulch and finished weed cloth/black trim around the edge.

Used the CD method for ground layering with those trees small enough. Looking forward to seeing these grow in the years to come.

A question if you read this far: with my future build of the bonsai garden, am I right with regard to being able to work on pines / junipers once the flush has hardened off in mid-late summer? Will be nice if I can add them once the project is complete since most of my deciduous I'll have to wait until fall.

I have limber pine, white cedar, northern red oak, douglas fir, bur oak and swamp white oak yet to be planted / currently in smaller pots. Gonna need that space, phew.

Cheers, please critique.
 

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Shibui

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I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve? Bonsai garden? Does this mean raised beds for ground growing stock? An area to display potted bonsai?

I have heard others talk about the CD method but very few follow up with great results. When I have tried growing tridents through flimsy plastic disks the roots have smashed the plastic in a few years. I find that sheet metal does a far better job here.

Looks like you have planted all your trees with vertical stems. Again, what are you hoping to achieve? Vertical trunks are great for landscape trees or for telephone poles. In bonsai, vertical trunks are not so common, except for broom or formal upright styles. I think the best bonsai start with the trunk emerging from the ground at an angle so now I plant all my trees in the grow beds at an angle right from the start. That allows the roots to develop in sympathy with the trunk and gives me better looking trunks for bonsai after the ground grow period.
am I right with regard to being able to work on pines / junipers once the flush has hardened off in mid-late summer?
'Work on pines' is quite ambiguous. Are you asking whether it is possible to transplant these trees at that time? Do you want to bare root them, just lightly trim the roots or just prune the branches?
 

Brad in GR

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I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve? Bonsai garden? Does this mean raised beds for ground growing stock? An area to display potted bonsai?

I have heard others talk about the CD method but very few follow up with great results. When I have tried growing tridents through flimsy plastic disks the roots have smashed the plastic in a few years. I find that sheet metal does a far better job here.

Looks like you have planted all your trees with vertical stems. Again, what are you hoping to achieve? Vertical trunks are great for landscape trees or for telephone poles. In bonsai, vertical trunks are not so common, except for broom or formal upright styles. I think the best bonsai start with the trunk emerging from the ground at an angle so now I plant all my trees in the grow beds at an angle right from the start. That allows the roots to develop in sympathy with the trunk and gives me better looking trunks for bonsai after the ground grow period.

'Work on pines' is quite ambiguous. Are you asking whether it is possible to transplant these trees at that time? Do you want to bare root them, just lightly trim the roots or just prune the branches?


Good notes on the straight trunks. I figure they are awfully young and this stage and just trying to achieve some maturity before I begin working on future design. Was going to go with lower branching long term to shape. I’ll take that into account the next time I pull them out and replant/repot with regard to the root system.

I also will be using ceramic 12x12 tile once they are mature enough (couple years) to cover the area with their currently minimal (surface area) - hence the CDs for now.

Re: pines yes - appropriate/safe to plant into ground after flush hardens is what I’m wondering versus now/spring.

The raised beds aren’t built yet but yes, they will enclose an area meant for display/will have a work area and benches etc - the raised beds will be for prebonsai to grow in the same way this little bed is used.
 

Shibui

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I figure they are awfully young and this stage and just trying to achieve some maturity before I begin working on future design. Was going to go with lower branching long term to shape.

Reduce to lower branching to get trunk movement is a common strategy. By the time the trunk has thickened the surface roots will also be thick and usually too rigid to move.

Here are some predictions:
trunks planted vertical through a hole in some sort of flat material (even when not planted through a plate many species will produce lateral surface roots)
plate roots.png
When it is thickened, reduce to lower side branch to give some trunk movement
plate roots2.png

I now have a trunk with good movement perched on a vertical base. Tilt the whole tree to rectify?
plate roots3.png
But roots are now thick and will not move so one side of nebari now sticks out of the ground. The other side is buried too deep.

Alternative. Plant the seedling through the plate at an angle right from the start.
plate roots 4.png
When it is thicker, reduce the trunk to lower branch and grow a new leader
plate roots 5.png

Which end product has more potential?

You should still be able to plant out your pines later in the year. Probably not do the same amount of root reduction as in spring though I do see a number of high level members here posting that they do root prune conifers after solstice? Do not just tip plants out of the pot and plant an intact rootball into the grow beds. Results are far from desirable roots and nebari:oops:
Sometimes, after desirable time has passed, I have simply opened out the rootball to splay the main roots while leaving almost all roots intact.

Mention of 12x12 tiles has me worried. Hope you don't mean to plant your trees on tiles this size?
 

Brad in GR

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Diagrams absolutely make sense, thank you for taking the time.

I'll make an attempt to correct once they've been comfortable in the ground for 1-2 years and then take this approach with a re-plant (no root work). Fortunately only about half of my trees are in, and these all were the youngest (1 year old from Arbor Foundation, so twigs literally).

8 of 12 of the 'twigs' in the picture were planted with the CD approach, remainder straight into ground. Douglas fir had root reduction as it is more mature (2-3 years). A trident maple, not shown (planted in center last spot available) was planted at an angle, is about .75 inches thick, had root reduction and has great movement that aligns with your diagrams above very much. That tree alone was planted on 12x12 tile with a much larger root base; still not a good approach? After much research this was pointed to as optimal with a tree with some maturity for field growing...

Thank you for the advice on the pines as well - I think I will take the risk on the root work and limit any pruning. With two pinus resinosa collected material this spring I made sure to not wash/bareroot, but to still chopstick-untangle root system and make cuts vs intact rootball to your point.

I appreciate the knowledge!
 

Shibui

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The reason for concern over 12x12 tiles is the size of the roots. I see people growing roots over tiles etc then only pruning the main roots to the size of the tile if they prune at all. What size tree? What size pot? will a 12x12 root system fit into a bonsai pot? If not, you will eventually need to prune the main roots back further to fit it into a pot. Why not start root pruning earlier?
The other problem I have with larger tiles is the time it takes for roots to reach the edge of the tile so they can get into deeper ground. In my dry climate any shallow roots without access to deeper soil moisture can die off. Regular watering is needed to maintain trees on larger plates until roots reach over the tile and reach deeper soil. New roots that may start from the trunk sometimes don't make it over the edge before drying out leaving a trunk with few larger lateral roots. If I don't actually need the roots that long why risk growing them?
If the tile is planted deep enough to maintain good soil moisture above it is probably too deep. My tridents love to grow new roots right at surface level. if the plate is too deep I get a 2 level root system. New surface roots thicken the trunk making the lower roots on the tile redundant.
Like branches above, roots ramify better if they are pruned. Most roots actually ramify from the previously cut ends more than back along the length of the root. I get far better results from pruning all major laterals really short in the first, second and/or third years. More regular root pruning gives densely ramified root system rather than just a few main roots radiating out from the trunk. my root control plates are 3 and 4" diameter and produce really good root systems.

You are all welcome to use whatever methods you feel comfortable with. Above is advice only - gleaned from more than 30 years of ground growing trees for bonsai.
 
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