Field Growing, an introductive primer.

[Smoke]

This will be short and sweet. This is a response on behalf of a person not exactly clear on how I am trying to help.

Field growing is a zero sum gain.

You plant whips.

In twenty years you have giant whips.

What happened?

The grower was not well versed in bonsai design to grow suitable material because they have no knowledge about such things. Field growing is not about just planting liners and growing giant wood. It is about controlling growth, building nebari, and growing appropriate branches in the desired spots. It is about taper and knowing when to chop, how to grow taper from that chop and how to make the tree grow where you want it and not where it wants to grow.

The zero sum gain part.

Lets say you are young and inexperienced at bonsai. You feel it necessary to put some stock in the ground to grow it out for working on in the future. As the stock grows you handle what it throws at you with the experience level you are at during that moment. At the end of twenty years and if you are lucky and your talent level has risen to the point of accomplishment, all that you grew over the past twenty years will appear very juvenile, lack character and be below the standard at which you wish to achieve when you planted it.

Lets say you are experienced at bonsai and in your fifties. By that time you now posses the talent to actually grow suitable material, but due to the 20 year wait you are now in your seventies and probably not able to suitably care for the tree in the way you could if your were fourty.

Most growers grow material for other people. Unless the material is a really fast grower, growing for yourself is sometimes very pointless. I don't wish to curb anyones enthusiasm for growing material. Grow all you want. I am just passing on some ideas that many people never think about when they throw it in the ground.

If a person is not cranking out bonsai like this from nursery material...at least...

......they will never be growing suitable material in the field.

 

[Smoke]

How many times on this very forum, I have written about it, do we see someone buy a plant willy nilly at a box store and post it here expecting someone to give step by step instructions on how to turn it into a Porsche.

The point is, even when you are in this hobby for say as little as three years, you don't purchase anything you see at home depot. A person is discriminating. They look for things that make the plant more desirable, maybe taper, good branch placement, exceptional nebari, tight foliage, healthy.

Those are the traits that when nourished can go a long ways into growing ones own stock. If one is still just buying things with crappy roots and thinking that interesting roots makes a better bonsai, then growing is probaly not your best hand.

 

[Smoke]

Wait a minute Keppler...

I posted that no one shows any work, we never get to see what is going on in the head of the poster.

Ah but you do. And I always wish to share some expertise when I find it noteworthy and something interesting.

I don't grow material. I was always of the persuasion that growing is such a waste of time, and for the reasons I mentioned. That was untill I found out the super fast rate of speed in which one can grow out trident maples to a suitable size in as little as five to seven years.

I decided to grow such specimens and take them all the way from seed to field grown to finished bonsai in ten years tops. I have shared my method for growing the seed under window screen to add suitable movement in the trunk. Some have mentioned that the trunk will just smooth out and will grow out of the shape in a few years. That is not the case.

I have found that when the bending is introduced at an early age, enough wood will grow into that shape and set the shape for all the next layers. In fact many of the liners are actually showing signs of more movement as they grow. In some cases the movement is more exagerated and is showing signs of being very beautiful material in the future.

As a control I left one specimen to grow naturally. Just bone straight. I found that all those growing under the screen have been naturally stunted, by as much as 25 percent.

Next year these will move to the field and begin growing some girth. It is then I will see how they respond to rapid growth.

There are some that would grow a whole field of those bone straight tridents and in the end be content with a couple.....

Or with a little imagination and skill, talent, expertise whatever you wish to call it grow a field of some with a very beautiful movement.

Its all in what you know....or learn if you wish.

 

[pmalelis]

Smoke, Thank you for your insight. The Sargent Juniper which I purchased at Home Depot and posted about in my other thread, was purchased as desriminatley as I could according to my current skill level you are correct. It was only purchased after after weeks of reviewing trees that I felt were useless, but this one at my current skill level seems usable( trunk is already an inch ) I have been in contact with Bill Valavanis to take his classes, and hope to start attending some BSUNY meetings soon to start my formal bonsai education. I am only 29 I try my best to learn and listen, so hopefully when I am 50 and I "get it" I can start field growing some nice juniper stock for my now seven year old son anthony, hes gotten bit by the bug too what can I say. I will enjoy these endevours and hopefully, although its just the internet, you and the folks here at B Nut will enjoy them with me. Thank you once more.
Pete

 

[Smoke]

For whatever its worth, Thank you.

Sometimes I have to beat people over the head, but I want to help.

Sometimes in the bar, you have to yell in the jerks ear!

Just one piece of advice.. put your growing efforts into 20 percent juniper or pine and 80 percent deciduous. Maples, Cotoneaster, Hornbeam and similar. These plants have the capability to show you good results in a few years versus 10 years on a juniper. Save your money any buy that really great juniper for your collection, and grow out some really good deciduous stock for yourself.

If your hell bent on a conifer try growing some yews. They are faster and really good subjects for bonsai in a few years.

Good Luck on your work with Bill, I know him well and he is one of the best. Bill has all sorts of bare root stock in the winter. Throw in some Styrax and quince just for good measure.

 

[amkhalid]

Some have mentioned that the trunk will just smooth out and will grow out of the shape in a few years. That is not the case.

I have found that when the bending is introduced at an early age, enough wood will grow into that shape and set the shape for all the next layers. In fact many of the liners are actually showing signs of more movement as they grow. In some cases the movement is more exagerated and is showing signs of being very beautiful material in the future.

Are the ones you posted the oldest ones you have? I too am having a hard time seeing how that subtle movement will not get muffled out after just 1-2 years in the field. I understand what you are saying about the foundation of future layers being set, but I'm still having a hard time believing that a few years of trident wood won't take over.

Also, you get random movement with the screen method. What is the advantage of this over wiring a young tree to add the exact movement that your artistic taste desires? Can tridents not be wired at that young age? I don't know, I've only been working with conifers from seed.

 

[Smoke]

Are the ones you posted the oldest ones you have? I too am having a hard time seeing how that subtle movement will not get muffled out after just 1-2 years in the field. I understand what you are saying about the foundation of future layers being set, but I'm still having a hard time believing that a few years of trident wood won't take over.

Also, you get random movement with the screen method. What is the advantage of this over wiring a young tree to add the exact movement that your artistic taste desires? Can tridents not be wired at that young age? I don't know, I've only been working with conifers from seed.

Don't have an answer to any of those questions yet.

Maybe in about two years. They are pretty crispy at this age. There is no way I could get some of the bends that I have with wire without breaking the trunks. They are like fat matchsticks.

Time will tell, but it will be shared.

 

[GO-OK]

This is a start to a good discussion. Here's a guy to model you efforts after if you are into shohin and growing from seed or cuttings. Many species with links on the left of the page have 10's and 20's of pages. This guy is cranking out some great stuff. Use your imagination with the translation but the photos if followed chronologically are self explanatory.

The other thing I like about Hikos blog is that he religiously updates almost daily.

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/fwnt1093/MYBLOG/yblog.html/

 

[Anthony]

Al,

this was started when the person was 19 years old. Three years in the growing trough, no colander back then [81], it was cut back down to start the branches. From a three leaf seedling. Tamarindus indica, 5" trunk. Height about 28" [ Being re-done for a bonsai pot.]

You have already seen the Texas Ebony, and there are quite a few others. It is not difficult to get a sizeable trunk in around 2 to 3 years, and the colander makes it more efficient.

What does take time is the branchlets.

Also it is suspected that the average person does not draw or in any way pre-plan or prepare towards pre-planning [ growing test subjects ] to understand the tree being trained. Which slows the eventual design to a crawl.

Apologies if this goes against what you are saying.
Good Morning
Anthony

At 50, with a design it should take less than 10 years to grow a good bonsai, 5 more for excellent bonsai.

 

[Anthony]

Al, this one proves your point.

Grown from seed in 87, and with no real undertsanding of what to do.
Trunk at 2", now being regrown with help and advice from B.S.G.
Good Morning
Anthony

Image is in the next response = apologies

 

[Anthony]

Whoops no image

 

[Anthony]

Al,

this one was 3 leaves and a root, stuck in a pot 12 deep x 18" diameter and forgotten.
From 1983.
Simple Ficus b. but non glossy leaves
Good Morning
Anthony

 

[ABCarve]

Field growing is a zero sum gain.

You plant whips.

In twenty years you have giant whips.

What happened?

Well it may not be a zero sum gain totally. All the trees in the foreground were put in the ground 20-25 years ago. I was just going to trunk them up a bit. I was a newbie with more enthusiasm than knowledge and not enough time on my hands. I was in the first stage of bonsai addiction....get one of each and see what happens. I guess you would call it niwaki now. The nice thing is that each tree has a great memory to go along with it, especially the bonsai person (Bill V. Jim D. Chase R.) that sold it to me. It's always a great view.

The 5 stages of bonsai addiction might make a interesting thread.

 

[Poink88]

Problem with this primer is your premise that the person who planted the tree on the ground is an idiot, who just planted the tree and left it there. Sorry, your zero sum gain theory can happen but unlikely (if the person have half a brain or serious about bonsai).

 

[pwk5017]

I do agree with Al that growing stock is not a simple process. Nor is it a "set it and forget it" process that is often portrayed. It takes work, planning, and a lot of foresight. However, I have been growing stock for 5-6 years, and now that I am out of college and have a dime to my name, I am working on better nursery stock. I will say I have learned alot from developing stock that informs the designs and techniques used on older/better material. The reverse of that is true to what you have said, Al, working on advanced bonsai material is absolutely necessary to becoming a better stock grower. It is an interesting dynamic between the two stages of bonsai, where the intent, work, and techniques are usually unrelated, but the process of each informs the other. I would encourage everyone to become involved in growing and developing stock, while they continue to work on more refined and developed pieces. I have personally found the experience to be a rich education.

Patrick

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I have about 150 in the ground, 12-15 species. Here is an interesting comparison between a kishu shimpaku and trident maple over the same 18 months...worlds apart in rate.

 

[AboveBeyond]

I have about 150 in the ground, 12-15 species. Here is an interesting comparison between a kishu shimpaku and trident maple over the same 18 months...worlds apart in rate.

Which pictures shows the comparison between the shimpaku and trident?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Sorry, all in the ground...first photo for each is from 1/12, second photo for each is 7/13.

 

[Lazylightningny]

But isn't everything we do as beginners, especially our flat-out failures, part of the learning curve? How can that be a bad thing?

 

[coh]

I do agree with Al that growing stock is not a simple process. Nor is it a "set it and forget it" process that is often portrayed. It takes work, planning, and a lot of foresight. However, I have been growing stock for 5-6 years, and now that I am out of college and have a dime to my name, I am working on better nursery stock. I will say I have learned alot from developing stock that informs the designs and techniques used on older/better material. The reverse of that is true to what you have said, Al, working on advanced bonsai material is absolutely necessary to becoming a better stock grower. It is an interesting dynamic between the two stages of bonsai, where the intent, work, and techniques are usually unrelated, but the process of each informs the other. I would encourage everyone to become involved in growing and developing stock, while they continue to work on more refined and developed pieces. I have personally found the experience to be a rich education.

Patrick

Yep, I agree with your thoughts. Besides, if I mess up with the stock I've got in the ground, I can always just dig it up and use it in the garden somewhere...so even in that case it's really not a loss, especially if I've enjoyed the process and learned something along the way.

Chris