Field Growing in Grow Bags

[sorce]

30+ years back

I would believe some space age material that a root can't ruin would be made recently, certainly not 30 years ago.

I worry research would only find talk.

I am supposed to believe that there is this magic window of resistance that won't turn a root that reaches the material, but will allow it thru.....but not so thru that it will grow larger?

I don't believe you won't have circling roots in the bag, and no roots growing thru.
It's impossible.

Sorce

 

[cmeg1]

My very first attempt at indoor growing without trying really, a couple years ago.
The Root Pouch brand does well.
It’s good to let them get dense in the pouch because you have to tear the bags off,but it seems to be a safe root prune.

 

[Shibui]

I don't see this as being physically possible.

Just because you can't believe does not make it impossible.
It was just over 30 years ago when we moved from root wrenching with a tractor and blade - difficult, hard and dangerous for the one holding the handles as the blade cut under the tree - to cut the roots of field grown trees and started using Root Control Bags. Not sure what they were made from but they certainly did what they claimed. When the bags were cut off there were hundreds of little lumpy scars at the ends of the roots where they had been constricted by the material. Definitely no circling roots.

 

[sorce]

lumpy scars

Interesting.

Pics!

Sorce

 

[penumbra]

I would believe some space age material that a root can't ruin would be made recently, certainly not 30 years ago.

I worry research would only find talk.

I am supposed to believe that there is this magic window of resistance that won't turn a root that reaches the material, but will allow it thru.....but not so thru that it will grow larger?

I don't believe you won't have circling roots in the bag, and no roots growing thru.
It's impossible.

Well Sorce, you just have to follow the history of root bags back. It all happened and its all true. I remember ripping the bags off the plants when I planted them. The outside of the bags was completely covered with small feeder roots and the roots inside were not circling in the least. I am sure it was over 30 years ago because I think I bought the first bags before we moved into our current house 30 years ago. I had a landscape businesses of my own from about 1989 until about 2009 or so and I did a bit of consulting after that. I worked for several other firms before that. Thirty years plus sounds spot on. The presentation I went to was really impressive and I think there was even a book written about it. I believe the firm was Root Control, but of this I am not certain. I can't recall even the name of the man that headed it up but he was a very well known and respected person.
Maybe those brain cells holding all this will kick in some day and if they do, you will be the first to know.

 

[sorce]

I think the hardest thing to believe is that Bonsai Growers haven't been using these bags exclusively for 30 years.

Sorce

 

[penumbra]

It goes back further than I thought. A quick search came up with this:

In 1980 a tree farmer had the idea to sew together containers from fabric. He hoped to make his trees easier to harvest. Little did he know he had just started a whole new way to grow trees and plants of all kinds. These fabric pots would later become known as Smart Pots and a revolution to the growing industry.
That tree farmer was Ralph Reiger, raising his trees near Guthrie, Oklahoma. He thought the fabric bags might hold the plant’s root structures more intact. And just a few short years later, in 1982 and 1983 Ralph was greatly surprised. Not only were the trees easier to harvest, and the roots held intact, but the roots had pruned from being in the bag! Eureka!
This meant that the root ball was thicker, bigger, denser. And showed no signs of circling like in traditional containers. This also meant that the trees were healthier. So when he transplanted them in the dead of summer they thrived.
Ralph knew a good thing when he saw it, so in 1984 he incorporated and started selling his new tree bags. He called them Root Control Bags. And the company, fittingly named Root Control, Inc.

 

[Shibui]

Pics!

Sorry mate. That was pre digital and we were working. No time for taking photos at work.

Here's a site I found with an illustration showing the way the roots react to the bags. https://www.naturessoil.com.au/products/weed-control.html


I also managed to lift this pic from a video
.
It is not real clear but you can see the swollen end of that root circled in red. That would have been just inside the bag where the root had grown through the material. There's only one on that picture but I remember all the roots just inside the bags had these little lumps where the roots had been constricted.

Here's a quote from another site:
"AUTOMATIC ROOT PRUNING! No mechanical root pruning device is needed. The fabric in the root control bag naturally root prunes a plant 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. This natural root pruning also induces a natural CALLOUSING on the root tip and a buildup of CARBOHYDRATES in the root structure. Root pruning, root callousing and carbohydrate buildup give a plant great survivability at transplant."
.........note the mention of natural callousing at the root tip....

As mentioned earlier and elsewhere, For bonsai I find it far better to root prune properly at the beginning and root prune regularly during field growing.

 

[leatherback]

The question now of course is.. How would these grow bags affect nebari development? Arelong running roots needed for flare development?

 

[Tieball]

The question now of course is.. How would these grow bags affect nebari development? Arelong running roots needed for flare development?

That’s a good question. My first thought to answer your question is...yes. That’s what I experience (longer running roots develop the flare) but I don’t use grow bags. I don’t have the answer. I’ll have to stay tuned. But I’m sure someone with actual hands-on experience, not read-about-it-experience, can offer up an answer. And a photo would be mighty fine.

 

[Shibui]

I still get pretty good basal flare on tridents even though I lift and root prune every year so I don't think it is related to root length. I think it is more to do with absence of vertical roots so the tree is relying mostly on horizontal surface roots and all the growth goes into those. Any trees that develop significant vertical roots in my grow beds have much less basal flare. The more horizontal surface roots I can get the better the basal flare hence the emphasis on getting good roots right from the start. Root development on boards and tiles is hit and miss but I know that root pruning is more predictable.

 

[penumbra]

The question now of course is.. How would these grow bags affect nebari development? Arelong running roots needed for flare development?

I had thought about this and my plans for bag planting this spring involve cutting the bags to make them shorter. I am sure that I will even put some of my plants on tiles in the bags. Also, I will start with a smaller bag and step it up every other year root prunning as I do. At least those are my plans.

 

[Dav4]

This JBP and JWP, from Telperion Farms, were grown in bags- if you look closely, you can see the JWP is still sitting in one. I suspect the key with using these to grow out pre-bonsai stock is working the roots early on, and periodically every few years, essentially as you would if you simply ground growing.

 

[sorce]

Sorry

Haha! No worries at all!

Been a while since I known you were Australian! Shoulda figured!
All that Bush...and y'all don't beat around it at all! Anyone here woulda just been like...
I swear, I swear. Blah blah blah.

Thanks for the pics!
Pretty amazing!

What the hell is the drawback then?
Why don't we use these all the time?

Is this in the ground bag or out?
I don't need to know that, I can do my own research now!
I just had to know it wasn't a bunch of folks believing some outrageous claim!

Many Thanks!
Cheers!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

@Bonsai Nut I accidentally "spam deleted" a post up there. I think...

Argh!

Sorry feller!

Sorce

 

[Bonsai Nut]

@Bonsai Nut I accidentally "spam deleted" a post up there. I think...

Taken care of

 

[coh]

I'd like to try grow bags for some of my in-ground stock, but haven't seen any place where you can buy small quantities (5 or 10 at most). Has anyone found a place that sells them individually or in small quantities?

 

[cmeg1]

I'd like to try grow bags for some of my in-ground stock, but haven't seen any place where you can buy small quantities (5 or 10 at most). Has anyone found a place that sells them individually or in small quantities?

RootPouch is best for inground various weave strengths by years

Grow Bags & Plant Pouches - Greenhouse Megastore

Add flexibility to your greenhouse and garden setup with our selection of polyethylene grow bags, fabric pots, hanging pouches and other portable containers.

www.greenhousemegastore.com

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Digging holes in the ground is a pain in my heavy clay soil. I have used grow bags above ground. My experience is good with one warning.

A soft flexible bag is fine as a grow bag - IF YOU DO NOT MOVE IT AROUND. Every time you pick up a grow bag it flexes. The flexibility is the problem. This will break fine young feeder roots. If you find you care constantly re-arranging your yard, flexible grow bags and flimsy thin pots that flex are bad. Actually had a couple pines die from the flexing apparently breaking too many fine roots, once too often during a growing season.

If you can set your grow bags on the ground, and leave them alone for a season or two, they are great. They seem to "air prune" much like growing in a colander would. Similar dense root system. But one must be gentle if you need to move them around.

I still have a few grow bags, and use them. But I plant them and leave them for several years before moving them around again.

 

[0soyoung]

I think the 'secret' of ground growing and/or basal flare is having roots firmly locked in the ground and a long whip that flexes the trunk in the wind. The use of grow bags with ground growing is simply keeping roots contained, saving the labor of periodically root pruning with a spade and/or making lifting easier/simpler/faster. Out of the ground, commercial grow bags amount to root air-pruning devices like pond baskets.