Field growing vs colanders, raised growing beds?

[justBonsai]

Hi,

I have some trees that I want to bulk up and begin thickening over the next few years. Currently most of my trees are either in colanders or nursery tubs. I want to put on as much trunk girth as possible over the next 2-3 years before I begin any significant refinement. That said whats the best method for putting on girth? Also how viable would a raised growing bed over bricks as opposed to over the ground?

Also do you guys just use the soil present in your ground or do you amend or replace it with other mediums?

Thanks,
Julian

 

[Cypress187]

I plant my tree's in my parents veggie raised bed 'garden', which only houses my tree's because i claimed all the space

 

[discusmike]

Colanders will give you more feeder roots,but take a little longer to thicken up,if you just plant them in the open ground,they will grow faster but you will have large roots to contend with,so that will set you back a bit in the long run,what are you planting?

 

[discusmike]

You need to address the soil at your house and see if it needs amending,how does it drain,is it clay and so on.if you have bad clay,above ground beds are a plus.

 

[discusmike]

I started a compost pile s few years back,helps when amending soil.

 

[Dav4]

If you have good soil, in ground growing will yield the fastest growth, hands down. If your soil isn't ideal, raised beds are a great idea. Mind you, the rapid growth in ground also means a rapidly growing and relatively coarse root system. Colander growing will generally give you give you a more ramified root system along with good top growth, but the overall vigor won't come close to what you'll get in the ground.

 

[0soyoung]

On time scales of less than 3 years, I'm not convinced that ground growing is much different that growing in a container. After three years or so of becoming 'established', ground growing definitely does produce the most rapid increases in girth.

To a certain extent, bending and flexing of the trunk in the wind makes the base of the tree expand in girth even more rapidly. This is only possible with the roots firmly anchored in the ground - in a container the works simply tips over.

 

[JoeR]

I think a very large colander is better, but not faster than ground growing.

It makes more sense to use a colander because you can control the roots much better. With groung growing I feel like you undo all the work you have previously put into the root mass. With colanders you improve the roota whike getting good top growth.

 

[Adair M]

A happy medium is raised bed growing in pumice and lava. One of Boon's students rented space in Boon's raised beds for a couple years... And the growth on the JBP was incredible! After a couple years, he dug them and put them in colanders to improve the roots.

 

[justBonsai]

A happy medium is raised bed growing in pumice and lava. One of Boon's students rented space in Boon's raised beds for a couple years... And the growth on the JBP was incredible! After a couple years, he dug them and put them in colanders to improve the roots.

That sounds like a good option, but it also sounds very expensive. I can't imagine how much pumice and lave I'd have to buy and sift to complete a whole bed.

 

[Adair M]

That sounds like a good option, but it also sounds very expensive. I can't imagine how much pumice and lave I'd have to buy and sift to complete a whole bed.

Depends on the size of the bed! I'm sure you could find something similiar in bulk.

 

[justBonsai]

My plans for a potential raised bed would be a mix of floor dry, pumice, and garden soil. Cheap and easy to mix. My only concern is how long does floor dry last for long term use? It is a bit on the softer side and can be crumbled with your fingers. It works great with my colanders so far but I've been only using it for a few months. Also where would I find large bulk quantities of scoria in sub 1/4 inch size?

 

[JoeR]

My plans for a potential raised bed would be a mix of floor dry, pumice, and garden soil. Cheap and easy to mix. My only concern is how long does floor dry last for long term use? It is a bit on the softer side and can be crumbled with your fingers. It works great with my colanders so far but I've been only using it for a few months. Also where would I find large bulk quantities of scoria in sub 1/4 inch size?

Sounds questionable so I wouldnt.

Maybe perlite? Can you get that in large quantities? Its very cheap to buy a small bag so it may be a good choice if you can get it large bags.

 

[justBonsai]

Sounds questionable so I wouldnt.

Maybe perlite? Can you get that in large quantities? Its very cheap to buy a small bag so it may be a good choice if you can get it large bags.

Perlite is very light so it doesn't make a good component to use as a primary ingredient. Using pumice and perlite will result in a mix that can easily be displaced through watering and weather. Floor dry is a good drainage component and holds moisture too. Many members here use it exclusively but I don't have too much experience with it yet which explains my hesitancy. In any case from what I've read using just plain dirt is fine. I don't have the luxury of using expensive blends--I even hand grind my own scoria at the moment to save money haha. I'm any case let me know what you guys use for ground growing.

 

[Geo]

"--I even hand grind my own scoria at the moment to save money haha."

I can get great red scoria down here, but they only sell it for paths,etc, It's big and I have had one session to get a small quarter inch amount for Tamarindus seedlings. Fair near did me in. I ended up using a flat rock on cement. How do you do it? Help save an old man's life!

 

[justBonsai]

"--I even hand grind my own scoria at the moment to save money haha."

I can get great red scoria down here, but they only sell it for paths,etc, It's big and I have had one session to get a small quarter inch amount for Tamarindus seedlings. Fair near did me in. I ended up using a flat rock on cement. How do you do it? Help save an old man's life!

Same here at any of my local hardware/landscape stores I can get nearly a 14L bag for under $10. I pretty much do the same thing you did though . I just hold it with 2 hands and smash the lava over a hard surface. Hammers are a bad idea because half the scoria ends up getting launched to who knows where lowering your yield down by a lot. The concrete is more absorbent so the lava doesn't go everywhere. I need to come up with a more efficient way of grinding it though--I'm thinking of getting a large concrete block and attaching it to a pulley system and build a brick box to drop it into. Not sure if its a feasible plan though.

 

[sorce]

I saw a rock on a roof sold specifically to not blow away.
Seemed perfect.

Never found a source.
Never knew what it was.

If you find out.....
Let me know!

Sorce

 

[Geo]

May be. Keep me posted if you do it. Thanks.

 

[coh]

Hi,

I have some trees that I want to bulk up and begin thickening over the next few years. Currently most of my trees are either in colanders or nursery tubs. I want to put on as much trunk girth as possible over the next 2-3 years before I begin any significant refinement. That said whats the best method for putting on girth? Also how viable would a raised growing bed over bricks as opposed to over the ground?

Also do you guys just use the soil present in your ground or do you amend or replace it with other mediums?

Thanks,
Julian

As others have noted...if all you're looking for is girth, ground growing is the way to go. Raised beds are nice but not necessary (unless you have really bad soil). I amended my regular garden soil with compost, manure, used bonsai soil (make sure from healthy plants), and the finer stuff that I sifted out of my soil (lava, pumice, turface, etc). Works pretty well for me.

Some plants tend to take a while to establish when planted in the ground, but in my experience, most take off very quickly and put on much more growth than you'd get in a container...even the first season. You do have to be aware that the root systems can grow out of control very quickly. At the very least, make sure to "work" the roots before planting, - prune out roots you don't want, arrange them in a radial pattern, and it's useful to plant them on a board, tile, plate, etc to force the roots to grow horizontally as opposed to down.

I have some specimens that have been in the ground for 4 year. I'll be digging some of them in the spring. Should be interesting to see what the roots look like.

Chris

 

[Smoke]

Same here at any of my local hardware/landscape stores I can get nearly a 14L bag for under $10. I pretty much do the same thing you did though . I just hold it with 2 hands and smash the lava over a hard surface. Hammers are a bad idea because half the scoria ends up getting launched to who knows where lowering your yield down by a lot. The concrete is more absorbent so the lava doesn't go everywhere. I need to come up with a more efficient way of grinding it though--I'm thinking of getting a large concrete block and attaching it to a pulley system and build a brick box to drop it into. Not sure if its a feasible plan though.

Why don't you just drive over to Fuji Bonsai in Sylmar, Kimura Bonsai near North Hollywood/NorthRidge or House of Bonsai in Lakewood , all of which have many pre-sifted soil components to buy in bags for cheap.