Field-grown trident

[one_bonsai]

On tridents, you can prune anytime. The concept of hardening, for me, is when the growth is mature enough to wire without damaging the soft growth.

What's the best time to prune Tridents to get short internodes? My Tridents have burst into spring growth but all shoots have long internodes.

 

[markyscott]

Are we talking about post 5? The place where you agreed and then did not take the advice.

Are you having a bad day, Al? I did execute the chop you proposed. I acknowledged your advice and posted about it in post 22, then updated the thread periodically for the next three years on the healing of the chop that you advised. Including with a post on this page.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

What's the best time to prune Tridents to get short internodes? My Tridents have burst into spring growth but all shoots have long internodes.

View attachment 263958

Why do you care about short internodes on wood you’re not going to keep? When you’re developing the trunk or the primary branch structure, you want strong growth. Strong growth means long internodes and big leaves. Those things don’t matter on wood you’re going to prune off anyway. The only the that matters right now for you is to set the angle of the new growth according to your vision for the tree. The length of the first internode is somewhat important (although you could always graft), but the length of the internode on everything beyond that is meaningless. It’s just there to thicken the branch.

As your tree develops, you’ll get more and more ramification. More branches mean more buds. Since you have the same amount of roots supporting more buds, the growth from each will be weaker and you’ll have tighter growth and smaller leaves. Also, you’ll be using different techniques like pinching and partial outer canopy defoliation that you will employ to manage the growth. But in development, you don’t want any of that. You want vigorous growth and long extensions that you can wire to build either the next trunk section or to set the primary branch structure.

S

 

[0soyoung]

More branches mean more buds. Since you have the same amount of roots supporting more buds

More buds (particularly the ones at the tips of branches) also means more roots.

 

[markyscott]

More buds (particularly the ones at the tips of branches) also means more roots.

Agreed. As long as you’re giving them room to grow and not regularly repotting and cutting them back significantly.

S

 

[Smoke]

Are you having a bad day, Al? I did execute the chop you proposed. I acknowledged your advice and posted about it in post 22, then updated the thread periodically for the next three years on the healing of the chop that you advised. Including with a post on this page.

Scott

You did not do what I suggested at all. My chop would have been half or more smaller than what you did, and I wouldn't have grown that insanely long sacrifice to heal the larger than the trunk chop. Now you have a huge mess up top and will have to start over again. Not prudent. I am getting an education though, thanks. My apex would have started where I suggested cutting the small tip. You have a life time, keep up the good work.

 

[markyscott]

You did not do what I suggested at all. My chop would have been half or more smaller than what you did, and I wouldn't have grown that insanely long sacrifice to heal the larger than the trunk chop. Now you have a huge mess up top and will have to start over again. Not prudent. I am getting an education though, thanks. My apex would have started where I suggested cutting the small tip. You have a life time, keep up the good work.

Thanks. Appreciate the feedback

S

 

[Adair M]

Thanks. Appreciate the feedback

S

I think what Smoke is saying (and he hates it when I try to do stuff like this) is he would have made the chop at less than a 45 degree angle. More straight across. Not completely straight across, but not as steep as a 45.

 

[Smoke]

This is your teacher. I would appreciate you not use my name any longer in how you work your tridents. I absolutely do not do what you are doing. I would appreciate you attributing all your work to Boon. It seems he has been to your house, I suspect if has given you ideas on how to work this. This is Boons work, not mine.

 

[markyscott]

This is your teacher. I would appreciate you not use my name any longer in how you work your tridents. I absolutely do not do what you are doing. I would appreciate you attributing all your work to Boon. It seems he has been to your house, I suspect if has given you ideas on how to work this. This is Boons work, not mine.
View attachment 263992

Ok no problem.

S

 

[one_bonsai]

Why do you care about short internodes on wood you’re not going to keep?

I'm developing secondary branching

 

[markyscott]

I'm developing secondary branching

Is this a primary branch?



S

 

[one_bonsai]

Is this a primary branch?

Yes. I'll be developing secondary branching off that.

 

[markyscott]

Yes. I'll be developing secondary branching off that.

This is my opinion. I see a young shoot with perhaps one season of growth. There is no movement, taper or character to the branch. If it were my tree, I’d cut it back to the new extending shoot and wire that shoot out to form the next segment of the primary branch. Then let that segment grow out to build caliper, then cut it back again. In a few seasons you’ll have a good branch with tight internodes that you can build from.

S

 

[one_bonsai]

This is my opinion. I see a young shoot with perhaps one season of growth. There is no movement, taper or character to the branch. If it were my tree, I’d cut it back to the new extending shoot and wire that shoot out to form the next segment of the primary branch. Then let that segment grow out to build caliper, then cut it back again. In a few seasons you’ll have a good branch with tight internodes that you can build from.

I think you're right. Thanks for the advice.

 

[one_bonsai]

When you’re developing the trunk or the primary branch structure, you want strong growth. Strong growth means long internodes and big leaves

I apologise if this is another stupid question, but if you get strong growth on primary branches with long internodes, doesn't the first secondary branch grow far away from the trunk? Or does that not matter?

 

[markyscott]

I apologise if this is another stupid question, but if you get strong growth on primary branches with long internodes, doesn't the first secondary branch grow far away from the trunk? Or does that not matter?

All you’re worried about is the first internode. That’s about all you’ll keep each year. It’s the process of growing out and cutting back year after year that will slowly develop interesting branch structure.

S

 

[Adair M]

All this is discussed in great detail in the “Ebihara Maples” thread.

 

[MrWunderful]

All you’re worried about is the first internode. That’s about all you’ll keep each year. It’s the process of growing out and cutting back year after year that will slowly develop interesting branch structure.

S

That right there is basically the key to deciduous branch form, in my opinion, especially on maples.

 

[MrWunderful]

I apologise if this is another stupid question, but if you get strong growth on primary branches with long internodes, doesn't the first secondary branch grow far away from the trunk? Or does that not matter?

I know it seems counter intuitive at first, but the branch will scale with the tree, and the taper of the branch should taper with the trunk if the tree is balanced for vigor.

I let my tridents grow to 5-6 internodes, the cut back to one. Then let grow again. Etc. Sometimes I can get 3 “cutbacks” a year (my elms more)