First Bald Cypress Sep 2017

[RobertB]

Picked up a bald cypress this weekend at a nursery in the sale section for 12$. It was 12 ft tall and looked pretty bad but i thought i would take a chance, even though it didn't have much to offer for pre-bonsai. No buttress, no trunk movement but i figured it would be one for me to start and mess with.

I am thinking i can do something like the flat top that askadamwhy.com has on one of his blog posts. I think it possibly has the potential.

My question is, i had to go ahead and trunk cut to get it in the car. Had the wrong car when i found it.. Is it safe to re-pot in winter / spring when the buds start to extend or should i let it recover for a full growing season then mess with the roots in winter / spring of 2019? Hell, hopefully it lives!

I was hoping I could reduce the roots and just cut the pot down to about 5" tall in the spring, while also removing most if not all the branches on the sides.

There does appear to be a knee on the lower right hand part of the photo. Hopefully when i repot i can pot it up some and get more of a buttressed look.

Thoughts?

 

[Pachycaul]

What size nursery pot?

 

[RobertB]

It's a large one, maybe 20 gal

 

[Beanwagon]

I consider myself a noob so take this with a grain of salt but if it were mine i would either

Cut it here and grow some taper




Or use the same leader as the image above but also create some deadwood with the trunk.





This is more drastic but for both ideas i would also split the trunk at the roots to create taper

 

[Beanwagon]

I must add that i do not really know how the trunk splitting will turn out. I am in the process of experimenting with it. Here is one i used this technique on last year



The majority of the taper is still buried below but i am happy with the results so far.

You may also notice the wire around the trunk. I am intentionally leaving it on so it digs in and creates bulges. I have seen similar at a local bonsai nursery that looked really good.

 

[Pachycaul]

It's a large one, maybe 20 gal

Well, personally I'd see what's buried below the present soil level before making any further decisions on trunk mods. From the photos it's difficult for me to tell whether what you describe as a knee is indeed a knee. My understanding is true knees develop only with age or constriction or perpetual submergence. Constricted roots can surface and some folks construct pseudo knees by kinking roots above ground. If you have a 20 gal. nursery can, the better part of your tree may remain unseen.

 

[Pachycaul]

You may already have taper, and not know it.

 

[sorce]

e better part of your tree may remain unseen.

I'd say surely over may!

Oooooo the suspense till spring!

Sorce

 

[RobertB]

I'd say surely over may!

Oooooo the suspense till spring!

Sorce

So it sounds like it would probably be ok to repot and flush out the roots / trim a ton of them, maybe even 80% of them in May?

I tried to rough up my second stage of work planned.


Then my end goal could be something like this. Once all branches are cut and new chop is made a new soft, strong leader would be selected, directed straight up and grown for several years to give me some taper between the two main sections then try to start working on the canopy. Something like this.



This could depict something representing my end goal.

Of coarse, I would really like to pick up several this winter by collecting. Found some very nice pond cypress' so far. Working on the approval to harvest a few. Have a few connections into where they are growing.

 

[RobertB]

Of coarse if there isn't a nice tapered buttress root spread I could work on that too, while trying to salvage whatever that is on the right hand side of the upper picture (maybe a knee, or start of) even if I have to reposition in pot. Sounds like keeping them submerged all spring - fall also helps them buttress out.

 

[RobertB]

I must add that i do not really know how the trunk splitting will turn out. I am in the process of experimenting with it. Here is one i used this technique on last year

View attachment 160688

The majority of the taper is still buried below but i am happy with the results so far.

You may also notice the wire around the trunk. I am intentionally leaving it on so it digs in and creates bulges. I have seen similar at a local bonsai nursery that looked really good.

By the way. Thank you for sooo much for your responses. These are interesting. This is also I will definitely consider when I am able to see whats under the soil.

 

[Dav4]

You've got taper there, but very subtle. From the few pictures offered, I'd consider leaving your chop intact and working with what you've got to make a taller tree. Consider hollowing out the trunk and make that uro a focal point.

 

[sorce]

Surely has taper lower...

The only question is how Pretty/ugly.
I try to capitalize May the month!

But sure! May too!

Can't figure nothing till then, or an early not so recommended dig down to the flare.

BC flare.

Sorce

 

[just.wing.it]

That thing looks root bound like a bitch!

 

[Pachycaul]

That thing looks root bound like a bitch!

Hmm.. @just.wing.it think you're on to something there. The tree probably didn't start out in that 20 gal. can, and to have the trunk caliper and height that it does/did, there is much more than what meets the eye. Can't wait to see what's under the hood!

 

[BillsBayou]

I have a hard and fast rule: Never buy bald cypress from a nursery.
The species is free to me to dig out of the swamps. Nurseries do not grow trees for bonsai and the roots will never look good.

HOWEVER

$12? Uhh..... Can I buy two of these?

As to your questions: Let the tree tell you what it can do when Spring rolls around. However, do one more thing right now: Cut an inch off the ends of all the branches. Like, stop reading this, get outside, and cut. I'll wait....

Done? Okay. I'll have another recommendation you can do later.

So why did I tell you to do this? Winter is coming.

The roots are there to support a 12' tree. You just cut off demand for their supply. The remaining branches are going to keep telling THEIR roots that everything is okay, and they'll continue to ask for their regular share of food. Cutting off the branch tips will reduce the auxins going down into the roots, where they suppress gibberellins. Gibberellin, no longer held in check, will start using up the food supply in the roots and carry it up to the branches and trunk to create and lengthen shoots.

With all this increased metabolic activity, you'll be increasing your chances of keeping much of the cambium alive. BCs can redistribute flow in the cambium to areas that need it. They'll also remove flow from areas that do not. Those areas die and you end up with dead spots beneath the bark. You cannot predict where these dead spots will appear.

When I dig fat BCs with branches, I always remove all the branches. The times when I ignore my own advice, I end up with a weak tree. It dedicates nearly all of its energy into the few branches it has. Very few new branches pop out. I don't get branches with wild activity, I get branches with the same little bit of activity these branches were going to get if I hadn't dug the tree at all. Reduced leaf production means reduced food generated and dying roots and dying cambium.

But I didn't tell you to remove all the branches because it's just too late in the year for that. Again, I would have bought this tree for $12 and let my wife complain that I could just dig these for free. It's too good a deal to pass up, so we have to improvise. I'll dig any desirable tree at any time of the year if there is a bulldozer bearing down on it. You had to get this tree. You had no choice. It had your name on it before you saw it.

What we're looking for is explosive growth. We need as much as we can get. You may want to winter this tree in your garage or shed when the nights drop below freezing. You're only one zone colder than me. I hope that means you don't have too many days below freezing. You don't want the new growth to freeze. Hopefully, the tree will harden off the new shoots and give you an Autumn.

Ignore all styling advice until April/May. Do not cut off any new shoots anywhere. Do not cut the roots. IF AND ONLY IF the tree is doing outstanding next April (and it likely will be) you can attempt to repot it. I'd try to, but I wouldn't cut the branches until 2019. Don't just cut the roots to 5". You need to know where the roots begin. Nursery trees are potted deeper and deeper into larger and larger pots. The root mass at the surface may not actually be coming of the trunk at the same level. Be informed before you just slice the root ball like a loaf of bread.

One more thing for you to do right now (after cutting off the branch tips): Seal that chop with Titebond III. Let the wood glue dry. Then cut a chamfer cut around the chop just wide enough to expose the cambium.

Keep the tree watered and post updates.

 

[RobertB]

Bill, thank you sooo much for the reply!! Yes, I agree with the whole wild collection thing. I have a handful I have found and am waiting on winter / permission to dig. I almost left it at nursery but just couldn't because I really like these and this is my first one.

Regarding cutting 1" off the ends of all branches, I will do this as soon as I get home.

Regarding the root work, the normal way I do it is use a small hand rake to remove most of the soil, then use the hose to bare root the tree. Just from skirting around the base with my fingers it appears there is at least 1, 1/2" diameter root coming out around the soil line. Is it Ok to cut these roots off (roots above the main basil flare) until I reach the flare when re-potting and pot the tree higher up in the container?

I was thinking about using the same container to re-pot into so I can eventually get fast leader growth as I want a strong leader on one side for the look im looking to get. I know this leader might have to grow for up to 3-5 years before I start developing the top but that's what Im willing to do to get this tree how I want it (of coarse unless it wants something completely different). Planning on potting in 50% pine bark, un sifted, 50% small pea gravel then kid a kidy pool for the pot to sit in during the spring through fall. I really want to turn the tree into something like this.

 

[BillsBayou]

Roots that are higher than the main flare can be removed if you can do it without having to carve too much out. If you pot a BC deep, it will grow new roots on the trunk. Not at the same level and not enough to look nice.

I recommend cutting that root now IF AND ONLY IF you can determine:
- That there is a level at which you have a nice collection of radial roots all within 2 inches (for that sized trunk) of each other,
- That the scar you're creating is not much larger than the root itself,
- That the trunk does NOT reverse taper above that root,
Then I'd recommend cutting the root now. Dig to expose it, cut it, seal it with Titebond III, bury it.
(my criteria is not exhaustive, your mileage may vary)

That last point is a killer. I have a Drake Elm that I potted too deep for growth, and it grew a root just below the soil line that fattened the trunk above the root. Damned root. I can't remove it. My solution (which does not work with BC) is to girdle the trunk with copper wire and let the elm grow over it and sprout new roots.

One option to consider is an approach graft to graft new roots at the soil line. When the root are fully grafted an you've removed the top part (the tree) of the grafts, drown the bald cypress for a season. The roots get nice and fat.

By the way, that's Jim Osborne's tree. He has been working under the guidance of Randy Bennet to develop it. Randy is a long time member of the Greater New Orleans Bonsai Society. Jim and Randy learned how to work BCs from Vaughn Banting (gone) along side of Guy Guidry and Gary Marchal (gone). (Holy shit, look at all the names I've dropped on the floor. I need a broom.) Jim has been a beast at developing the ramification on his tree. It's wicked good. If you scroll down Adam's page, you'll see the ramification, and sadly, Jim's face. Scary shit.

 

[RobertB]

Bill, I am confused about your response starting with, "that last point is a killer".

Assuming I am able to cut and remove the 1 or couple roots at the soil line now, I was planning to bare root the tree and pot it up in the same container (in April and if its strong), basically just switching the soil out and positioning the tree higher within the pot, where the main basal flare is just under the soil line.

 

[coh]

That Osborne tree is fantastic! Gonna save that for reference as I develop my own tree. @BillsBayou do you know the height of that tree? I didn't see it listed anywhere.