First Bald Cypress Sep 2017

BillsBayou

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Bill, I am confused about your response starting with, "that last point is a killer".

Assuming I am able to cut and remove the 1 or couple roots at the soil line now, I was planning to bare root the tree and pot it up in the same container (in April and if its strong), basically just switching the soil out and positioning the tree higher within the pot, where the main basal flare is just under the soil line.
The last point is the third point in my criteria for cutting a high root. You may be able to ignore, or stretch the limits of the first two points, but if your trunk is noticeably fatter above a high root, you're stuck with it.

If you're going to bare root the tree, you're going to have a narrow window somewhere in April. You want the new growth to be pronounced and you want Spring's buds in full leaf. But you don't want it too hot to do a bare root on a tree that you're pushing hard. The tree has been chopped and it's trying to recover, and you're repotting, and it's getting hot. So pray for cool weather in mid-April. I'd cut the roots to a depth of 5-inches and pot the tree into a mason tub with no holes. Keep it fulled drowned. To cut down on mosquitoes, I keep bottles of insecticidal oil all over my growing areas. I add a few drops here and there to keep those little bastards from breeding.

Note on insecticidal oils: They're petroleum based. If you have any buttonwoods (Conocarpus erectus), never spray them with any oil-based insecticide. It'll kill the tree.
 

rockm

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Have you excavated down BELOW the current soil level to see if this has any kind of root flare lurking down there? Trees grow in nursery containers often have "multi-level" roots because they are potted up to the next container size with backfill. It's worth digging down four or five inches in select spots to see before you start cutting roots...
 

BillsBayou

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That Osborne tree is fantastic! Gonna save that for reference as I develop my own tree. @BillsBayou do you know the height of that tree? I didn't see it listed anywhere.
Just texted him. He replied: A little over 40" not including its pot. Somewhat shorter in its leafless state.
(he's a smart-ass)

Guy Guidry has cronic-tall-bonsai syndrome. It's contagious. Several of us have contracted the disease. There is no cure.

I'm editing a video for a bald cypress bonsai that is well over 50-inches tall (maybe 54 or 55 inches). I haven't done any videos on it before. When long-time bonsai people see it, "It's too tall" is the most common complaint. The video will be out soon. Or I'll have a nervous breakdown. Or both. I'm trying to get 10+ hours of 5 different recording sessions down to 30 minutes with reasonable sound mastering. The tree is worth it, though.
 

just.wing.it

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Interesting information @BillsBayou...
Thanks for sharing your expertise...
I find the part about Repotting in April with leaves fully out, to be very curious...

Why do you think that's a better way for BC?....as opposed to just before bud break...?
 

RobertB

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IMG_4489.JPG IMG_4488.JPG IMG_4487.JPG IMG_4486.JPG Ok. I cut an inch off of each branch. Also took some photos around base to about an inch down. Seems like there is one large root choking the plant. Don't think I'm going to be able to look at it very good till spring.
 

BillsBayou

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Interesting information @BillsBayou...
Thanks for sharing your expertise...
I find the part about Repotting in April with leaves fully out, to be very curious...

Why do you think that's a better way for BC?....as opposed to just before bud break...?
The tree was chopped at a risky part of the year. When it should be rolling into Fall with stored starches in the roots, it's being called upon to use them.

I want to see it maintain its vigor; to keep as much cambium and roots employed as possible. Trim the ends of all the branches to get the tree to pop more branches to restore food production to the roots. The tree has a root ball for a 12-foot tree. The cambium is calibrated the same way.

I recommend repotting after we've seen sufficient vigor in the Spring. Fall growth (and possible Winter die-back) will put a stress load on the system. If the tree bounces back in the Spring, then we know the tree is still vigorous. If not, then wait another year. If we repot in early January, and the OP wants to do a serious cut-back on the depth of the roots, we're hoping the flush of growth we got in the Fall was enough to give us a Spring pop. Since the Fall growth is a reaction to a stressful situation, I'm thinking we're more likely to kill the tree.

April gives us a window for after the Spring growth hardens off and before Summer heat rolls in. I don't like to touch my bald cypress from bud-break to leaf-set. The tree says "Oh, you don't want me to grow buds there? Fine. Knock them off. I'll keep that spot bare for you this year."

That said....

Bald cypress are fairly resilient. If this was my $12 tree, I wouldn't be babying the tree. It's $12 and I can dig more reliable/predictable trees every winter. So it's a cheap experiment for me. I'd like to see what it would do if I chopped the roots to 5-inches in January. I did a similar experiment with Hong Kong Kumquat (Fortunella hindsii) by repotting 16 of them on a dry hot day in August. It was part of a larger experiment with different chemical treatments and a control group. Every single one of the trees survived as vigorously as the others. Turns out the species is a tough one. Ruined the experiment, but I learned something anyway. Sometimes I do stupid things on purpose to see what a tree can take. This is the OP's only BC, so caution is warranted.

I developed a sense of caution when David DeGroot (what is it with Bill and all these name drops?) advised us to chop the roots and the trunk at the time we dig a bald cypress. Give it one big stressor rather than two. Someone had asked him why his bald cypress was doing poorly. The guy had dug the tree in February, potted it in a deep nursery container, and chopped the rootball the following January. Spring growth was sparse. Lesson learned.

The OP seems really anxious to get this project tree launched. I say wait until he gets a good Spring, but not sooner.
 

BillsBayou

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Ok. I cut an inch off of each branch. Also took some photos around base to about an inch down. Seems like there is one large root choking the plant. Don't think I'm going to be able to look at it very good till spring.

Eeeee.... Yeah. Don't cut any roots now. The good news, ignoring that choking root, is that there are plenty of roots just below the surface. Whenever it is time to cut the root ball, you'll want to trace that choking root back to it's source. Figure out where to cut it. Then drown the tree. You should have something very nice in the end.
 

just.wing.it

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The tree was chopped at a risky part of the year. When it should be rolling into Fall with stored starches in the roots, it's being called upon to use them.

I want to see it maintain its vigor; to keep as much cambium and roots employed as possible. Trim the ends of all the branches to get the tree to pop more branches to restore food production to the roots. The tree has a root ball for a 12-foot tree. The cambium is calibrated the same way.

I recommend repotting after we've seen sufficient vigor in the Spring. Fall growth (and possible Winter die-back) will put a stress load on the system. If the tree bounces back in the Spring, then we know the tree is still vigorous. If not, then wait another year. If we repot in early January, and the OP wants to do a serious cut-back on the depth of the roots, we're hoping the flush of growth we got in the Fall was enough to give us a Spring pop. Since the Fall growth is a reaction to a stressful situation, I'm thinking we're more likely to kill the tree.

April gives us a window for after the Spring growth hardens off and before Summer heat rolls in. I don't like to touch my bald cypress from bud-break to leaf-set. The tree says "Oh, you don't want me to grow buds there? Fine. Knock them off. I'll keep that spot bare for you this year."

That said....

Bald cypress are fairly resilient. If this was my $12 tree, I wouldn't be babying the tree. It's $12 and I can dig more reliable/predictable trees every winter. So it's a cheap experiment for me. I'd like to see what it would do if I chopped the roots to 5-inches in January. I did a similar experiment with Hong Kong Kumquat (Fortunella hindsii) by repotting 16 of them on a dry hot day in August. It was part of a larger experiment with different chemical treatments and a control group. Every single one of the trees survived as vigorously as the others. Turns out the species is a tough one. Ruined the experiment, but I learned something anyway. Sometimes I do stupid things on purpose to see what a tree can take. This is the OP's only BC, so caution is warranted.

I developed a sense of caution when David DeGroot (what is it with Bill and all these name drops?) advised us to chop the roots and the trunk at the time we dig a bald cypress. Give it one big stressor rather than two. Someone had asked him why his bald cypress was doing poorly. The guy had dug the tree in February, potted it in a deep nursery container, and chopped the rootball the following January. Spring growth was sparse. Lesson learned.

The OP seems really anxious to get this project tree launched. I say wait until he gets a good Spring, but not sooner.
OK, I gotcha now....
Much appreciated Bill!
 

coh

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Just texted him. He replied: A little over 40" not including its pot. Somewhat shorter in its leafless state.
(he's a smart-ass)

Guy Guidry has cronic-tall-bonsai syndrome. It's contagious. Several of us have contracted the disease. There is no cure.

I'm editing a video for a bald cypress bonsai that is well over 50-inches tall (maybe 54 or 55 inches). I haven't done any videos on it before. When long-time bonsai people see it, "It's too tall" is the most common complaint. The video will be out soon. Or I'll have a nervous breakdown. Or both. I'm trying to get 10+ hours of 5 different recording sessions down to 30 minutes with reasonable sound mastering. The tree is worth it, though.
Thanks, that is quite helpful! I've seen a number of bald cypresses come through the National Exhibitions over the years. There has been a wide range in tree heights, several in the 25-30" range but others 40"+. My sense is that to do a flat top cypress effectively requires a taller tree than if you do a more standard upright conifer style, but I really haven't seen enough of them to be sure. What do you think about that? Have you seen good flat top cypress bonsai at or below 30" in height?

I've got one in the ground that is healing a trunk chop and building the next trunk segment. They do well here. Well, they survive :) but it probably takes 2-3 times longer to get the same development as you'd get down there. So I've still got time to plan. Think I'd like to do a flat top style if I can make it work at about 30" height.
 

Pachycaul

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[QUOTE="BillsBayou, post: 490778, member: 18737"...
I'm editing a video for a bald cypress....
..... I'm trying to get 10+ hours of 5 different recording sessions down to 30 minutes with reasonable sound mastering. The tree is worth it, though.[/QUOTE]

Looking forward to seeing that- YouTube or who?
 

jeanluc83

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Have you excavated down BELOW the current soil level to see if this has any kind of root flare lurking down there? Trees grow in nursery containers often have "multi-level" roots because they are potted up to the next container size with backfill. It's worth digging down four or five inches in select spots to see before you start cutting roots...

@rnlabarnes I haven't read all the responses but it seams like you have the cart before the cart here. For BS the root flare is everything so you need to see what the roots are really doing. You are not going to do this by scratching away some of the top of the soil. I would wait until spring then bare root it and see what you have. I wouldn't do anything else until then.
 

BillsBayou

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Looking forward to seeing that- YouTube or who?
https://www.youtube.com/BillsBayou

Have you seen good flat top cypress bonsai at or below 30" in height?
I cannot say that I've seen any that short, but I believe the following trees by Vaughn Banting may come close. For those who don't know, Vaughn Banting is the father of "flat-top style". Just after he died in 2008, I downloaded his entire web site to my hard drive. Here's Vaughn's words on bald cypress flat-top style:
"Although deciduous, bald cypress is a true conifer and coniferous trees usually have a Christmas tree-like growth habit or what we call in bonsai, a formal upright style. But as bald cypress mature they begin to depart from the natural form of the most conifers. Their lower branches begin to shed and their crowns begin to spread out and lose any suggestion of a single apex or terminal. If one has grown up in the swamps of the deep South, the silhouettes of these trees have a special place in the psyche. So it was quite natural when some of us here in the bonsai community of the deep South began to try to capture thier mood through bonsai.

Over the years I have studied and photographed the branch structures that normally account for this strange form and have given it a name; Flat-Top style. The next photographs are of examples of some of the cyprus I have trained in this style. One you have already scene above in a series of its development."

Here are a few photos of three of his flat-top trees. The first two are bald cypress(T. distichum), the third is a pond cypress (T. ascendens):

This is the classic Vaughn Banting flat-top that I think of when I think of him. It is now in the National collection.
cypress-best-scan.jpg

This is another flat-top. It is now in the Pacific rim collection.
pacific-rim-cypress.jpg Flat-top-going-to-Pacific-R.jpg

This is a hollow-trunk pond cypress. Whereabouts unknown to me.
holow-trunk-pond-cypress2.jpg
 

RobertB

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Here is an update on last Sept nursery cypress. Not sure if Im going to repot yet this spring. I did decide to go ahead and remove the old branches driving me nuts and keep the new growth since Sept. I also worked on re-sealing the chop. Had some dieback and wanted to get it re-started.

The top growth sticking straight up will hopefully be my new leader. I had to clean it up some at the base as there was a whorl of older small branches in that spot. Hopefully it lasts.

Will probably end up potting up. We will see how it looks when it starts pushing.

IMG_2246.jpg
 

Mellow Mullet

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It looks good, I read through this thread and I would not wait until April to repot it, it will be too late for our area. This is the same reason why we don't repot azaleas after bloom down here, it will not have time to recover before it gets too hot. The end of May can be really hot and June will most certainly be. In July it will go into summer dormancy and not do anything. Also if you wait until bud break, you will knock a lot of the buds off in the process, they are fairly fragile until established. By April it will have a significant amount of foliage and that is not the time to be trimming roots. If you want to wait until you see some movement, look carefully at the branches, when you see the "bumps" form that will eventually become buds but the still have not broken the surface (green), you will know that it is moving; get to it then. I have bare rooted, chopped top and bottom, and wired all in one day with no ill effects. After you get it potted up, water it like normal until we start getting successive warm weather (upper 50's at night), then submerge it. If you are concerned about removing too many roots, make this a two season project. Cut about half as many roots as you want to, let it grow this season ( it will fill the pot with new roots, especially when submerged), then repot again next spring. You will have more and better roots to select from and will probably be able to remove exactly what you want next Spring.

Check out the bald cypress repot on my site, www.heartofdixiebonsai.com. You can be real aggressive with the roots.

John
 

RobertB

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John, thank you for the advice. I will probably try and work it in before end of Feb. I will probably just do a major reduction to fit within a small tube. Will probably cut back the top roots till I reach the flare as long as it doesn't mess up my taper, otherwise I could end up making some pretty large chops on the bottom and just wait and see what happens. I have some others now so I'm not so attached to this one.
 

RobertB

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So just because i have others now i went ahead and did the works on this cypress. It was in a very large pot and once pulled out, i discovered that it was a very tight pretzel of 1" thick roots. Took me about 2 hrs to sort through the roots. Once i trimmed it down a bit I was able to find two set of roots, a bottom flair and another flair about 4" above. I went ahead and chose the upper flair as removing it would have resulted in some inverse taper.

I had to be very aggressive with this to get it into a manageable pot and get ready for a bonsai pot one day. VERY AGGRESSIVE. not alot of feeder roots at all leftover. Hell, there were not much anyways as the large roots pretty much occupied any and all free spaces. Most of them were growing into each other.

Here it is before starting. Notice the daylight.
IMG_2305.jpg

2hrs later and most of the way there. Just had to make clean / final cuts to fit into tub.

IMG_2306.jpg

IMG_2309.jpg

O and wait. I am very sure these are knees forming. Hard to see in photo but they have to be knees.

IMG_2312.jpg

Now trimmed and ready for pot.

IMG_2313.jpg
IMG_2314.jpg

And here it is before the soil was added.
IMG_2316.jpg
Dont have a final pic.

Will add later if it ends up living and flushing out. I will leave it in this for a while. Want to keep those knees forming. Hopefully i can keep it potted for at least 3 years without it lifting up too much. I have alot of growing out on top to form my new leader.
 

RobertB

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started noticing some buds pushing this weekend. Fingers crossed that it pushes out and recovers nicely.
 

RobertB

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That is my plan on all 7 of them if they make it.
 

JosephCooper

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Get more shari!

I think it would look fantastic with more deadwood!
 
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