First Chinese Elm winter, very new to bonsai.

[MavyBoy]

Hello,

I recently ordered a Chinese elm bonsai from EasternLeaf after seeing Chinese elm as being 'beginner friendly'. I have 2 Ficus' that are doing well enough, and one serissa that is doing great but I anticipate my inexperience will kill it this winter.

I live in IL, zone 6a, and my plan is to keep this tree outdoors where it will receive roughly 5 hours of direct morning sunlight, on the roof adjacent to my 2nd floor window, and will be in full shade the rest of the day. I am hoping this is enough sun to keep it healthy until I can think of a possibly better alternative to fit my apartment. However there is so much conflicting information all over the internet about wintering the Chinese elm that I have no idea wtf I need to do. As it stands if I can keep it alive through the summer I plan on just leaving it in the same location during the winter. It gets cold here, -10f or worse on occasion in a bad winter. For days/nights like that I plan on taking it indoors and placing it in the hallway leading to my apartment, which is generally warmer in the summer months, and cooler in the winter months as there isn't any ventilation, however in the hallway it will receive no light whatsoever, and it could be extremely cold for say an entire week. When the temperature rises back up I will simply place it again back onto the roof of the adjacent building where it will revive morning sun again.

Any help would be appreciated, I am trying to go about this hobby as best I can with what limitations I have. I recently had a juniper survive a winter on this roof but eventually die to a culmination of spilling and breaking it's pot, being repotted, attacked by spider mites, and over fertilizing all within a few months. I royal screwed it over, but I learned a LOT from the experience so it is still a win! (Plus I still have the pot).

 

[Zach Smith]

Just curious, did the vendor give you a care sheet and if so what did it say to do in winter?

 

[MavyBoy]

Just curious, did the vendor give you a care sheet and if so what did it say to do in winter?

It has not arrived yet, It should be here in the next few days.

 

[Zach Smith]

It has not arrived yet, It should be here in the next few days.

Best to start with their advice. In winter the tree should be leafless so that's a plus. The main thing is protection of the root zone from harsh cold. A dormant period is important, so the more outdoor time the better.

 

[MavyBoy]

Alright, I'll see what their care guide has to say first, it seems like they're selling it as a an indoor or outdoor tree, "Characterized by its leaf shape and trunk structure, the Chinese Elm Bonsai tree is a perfect addition of style and grace to any coffee table " which from my limited knowledge I would assume that this thing will die indoors within a couple years...

I planned on buying a styrafoam cooler and filling it with wood chips or something, and placing the pot inside and filling it to the trunk to maybe protect it from the cold.. But I'll see what the care guide has to say first.

 

[Zach Smith]

Ha! There's one thing you never read in all the guidance on growing bonsai indoors, and that's how to outfit your coffee table for growing bonsai.

 

[coltranem]

I winter mine in my bulkhead. Sometime in November it loses its leaves and it goes down there. This tends to keep it above 20 F.

 

[W3rk]

Alright, I'll see what their care guide has to say first, it seems like they're selling it as a an indoor or outdoor tree, "Characterized by its leaf shape and trunk structure, the Chinese Elm Bonsai tree is a perfect addition of style and grace to any coffee table " which from my limited knowledge I would assume that this thing will die indoors within a couple years...

I planned on buying a styrafoam cooler and filling it with wood chips or something, and placing the pot inside and filling it to the trunk to maybe protect it from the cold.. But I'll see what the care guide has to say first.

I can shed some light on this for you. I actually started with my first tree just the same (as a gift) a Chinese Elm from Eastern Leaf.

I did my homework and also spoke to the vendor about its' normal conditions (they are in southern CA). They had indicated that it went dormant over winter. Documentation on Chinese Elm will tell you that it can either be an Evergreen (if conditions allow) and may not need dormancy. Or in temperate zones, they can go dormant.

I'm in zone 7, with very different conditions than southern CA. My first fall heading in to winter the tree was very slow to go dormant. But I just left it outside heading in to winter and was able to force dormancy. I just stored the tree in the dark in my unheated garage for overwintering. As soon as I saw the slightest movement of buds coming out of winter I brought it outside. It's been chugging along great and looks more like a big shrub now as I've really been letting it grow on.

Hope this helps some.

 

[MavyBoy]

I just stored the tree in the dark in my unheated garage for overwintering. As soon as I saw the slightest movement of buds coming out of winter I brought it outside. It's been chugging along great and looks more like a big shrub now as I've really been letting it grow on.

Hope this helps some.

It does! I have a shed that isn't far from my apartment I may be able to use.
So you just left it in your garage all winter?? I'm in zone 6a which isn't too drastically different from zone 7.

 

[sorce]

Eff their care guide. No offense Zach.
Care guides never have apartment help.

We do.

Sounds like a good scenario on the roof, cuz that tar heats up by afternoon with full sun.

Mulching the pot in a box and leaving it there is your best bet for winter.

Bringing it in is what will kill it, even just a couple days.

I've left elms out in worse.

Ulmus Favoritus!

This one has been seen here b4! Big changes this year so it gets a thread! A little trimming 2 Days ago. Likely chops. And check out my new leader tied up. Wire? No! That lead to this. .... For the hell of it! The "front". Pretrim. I'll probably make those cuts at repot! Till then...

www.bonsainut.com

And hell that its a chinese elm...
It Will know what to do when winter hits.

Sorce

 

[Cypress187]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Zach Smith]

Eff their care guide. No offense Zach.
Care guides never have apartment help.

We do.

Sounds like a good scenario on the roof, cuz that tar heats up by afternoon with full sun.

Mulching the pot in a box and leaving it there is your best bet for winter.

Bringing it in is what will kill it, even just a couple days.

I've left elms out in worse.

Ulmus Favoritus!

This one has been seen here b4! Big changes this year so it gets a thread! A little trimming 2 Days ago. Likely chops. And check out my new leader tied up. Wire? No! That lead to this. .... For the hell of it! The "front". Pretrim. I'll probably make those cuts at repot! Till then...

www.bonsainut.com

And hell that its a chinese elm...
It Will know what to do when winter hits.

Sorce

No offense taken. My question was actually just a point of curiosity. Is the vendor telling you that your bonsai won't fit well on a modern flat screen TV? Considering the types of questions beginners ask here, and considering where most get their first bonsai, I thought the question and answer might help. Siting your tree, overwintering, watering, feeding, all critical to success. There's nothing more discouraging than having your tree die and not knowing what you did wrong or even if you did something wrong.

 

[MavyBoy]

Thanks for the replies, I’m getting more confident about my ‘set up’ outside. I’ll update with photos once I get the tree and have it in it’s new high rise home. Wink wink

The progress on that tree, sorce is really cool. I love the ‘time lapse-esque’ growalongs, to see it develop over such a period of time is fascinating!

 

[MavyBoy]

Alright so I have a new question after just getting my new Elm.

It shipped unwired, as in there’s nothing holding it into the pot, and it can move a little bit. The soil looks kinda crappy, like a soil mix, but I don’t think I can repot it given the season..
1. is this ok? To have it unwired in the pot?
2. Does this location look good? The sun (as of now) rises over the roof and it will get direct morning sunlight until approximately noon. So 3-4 hours direct sun I’m thinking. I’m struggling to find a place for this outside where it could get more sun than that.

 

[Zac]

I also received a Chinese elm from eastern leaf they're care guide is very vague and is same that is on website. I talked to them they will not give zone specific care instructions but said if temps get below 35 degrees should keep it inside they said the same for the cotoneaster I received also.i know this isn't good to do. I'm also looking for good info on overwintering these Trees I live in zone 6b - 6a I'm close to the line between the 2. I've read that people put their trees in totes with lizard heater wire to keep trees around 15-20 degrees and some suggested putting pot and all into larger pot fill larger pot with dirt or mulch up to top of original pot. I'm thinking of a cold frame or using my unheated uninsulated shed or my window wells but haven't decided yet

 

[rockm]

I also received a Chinese elm from eastern leaf they're care guide is very vague and is same that is on website. I talked to them they will not give zone specific care instructions but said if temps get below 35 degrees should keep it inside they said the same for the cotoneaster I received also.i know this isn't good to do. I'm also looking for good info on overwintering these Trees I live in zone 6b - 6a I'm close to the line between the 2. I've read that people put their trees in totes with lizard heater wire to keep trees around 15-20 degrees and some suggested putting pot and all into larger pot fill larger pot with dirt or mulch up to top of original pot. I'm thinking of a cold frame or using my unheated uninsulated shed or my window wells but haven't decided yet

Unheated, uninsulated shed will work.

Once tree has experienced a few shallow frosts and freezes (above 26 F is fine) in the late fall, move the tree into the shed, same for the cotoneaster. The object is NOT to keep the trees "warm." Trying to do that will result in problems and is a basic mistake made by beginners.

THe aim is to keep the trees as cold as they can stand, for as long as possible. That means trying to keep the roots at a relatively stable 26 or a bit warmer. That can be accomplished by not only putting the trees in the shed, but mulching them up to and over the tops of their pots with shredded bark mulch. The mulch traps ambient ground "heat" (and heat is relative here. The ground will always be warmer than the air temp in winter, opposite goes for summer.) The mulch pile (the bigger the better) retains or lags air temperatures by as much as 10 F. Insure trees and mulch remain adequately watered in the winter, don't allow them to dry out. It's fine if the mulch freezes through a bit. I would NOT use heaters in that situation. It is a fire hazard and unneeded.

 

[Zac]

My shed last year got down to 10 degrees several times overnight. I had a cotoneaster in there last year that did not come out of dormancy I thought it was because of cold but I have a thread on here about it and others have quoted that they think it was other things that caused the trees demise.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Unheated, uninsulated shed will work.

Once tree has experienced a few shallow frosts and freezes (above 26 F is fine) in the late fall, move the tree into the shed, same for the cotoneaster. The object is NOT to keep the trees "warm." Trying to do that will result in problems and is a basic mistake made by beginners.

THe aim is to keep the trees as cold as they can stand, for as long as possible. That means trying to keep the roots at a relatively stable 26 or a bit warmer. That can be accomplished by not only putting the trees in the shed, but mulching them up to and over the tops of their pots with shredded bark mulch. The mulch traps ambient ground "heat" (and heat is relative here. The ground will always be warmer than the air temp in winter, opposite goes for summer.) The mulch pile (the bigger the better) retains or lags air temperatures by as much as 10 F. Insure trees and mulch remain adequately watered in the winter, don't allow them to dry out. It's fine if the mulch freezes through a bit. I would NOT use heaters in that situation. It is a fire hazard and unneeded.

Is it overkill to surround grow boxes with Styrofoam using this setup?

 

[rockm]

Is it overkill to surround grow boxes with Styrofoam using this setup?

Mostly yes. It's overly complicating a rather straightforward situation. The ambient heat that protects your bonsai is coming from the ground, not the sides of the mulch pile. The only thing styrofoam would mostly be doing is containing the mulch. Wood or whatever will do just as well...Styrofoam is of little use in overwintering anything.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Mostly yes. It's overly complicating a rather straightforward situation. The ambient heat that protects your bonsai is coming from the ground, not the sides of the mulch pile. The only thing styrofoam would mostly be doing is containing the mulch. Wood or whatever will do just as well...Styrofoam is of little use in overwintering anything.

Much thanks, you just saved me time and money. I followed your advice last year and mulched everything except the tops of the pots. How do you know when to water if the tops are mulched as well?