First Elm

[Cable]

Picked up my first cork-bark Chinese elm over the weekend.





The seller recommended I re-pot now. I usually do potting in the spring or fall but I've also heard elms can take a lot of abuse so maybe I should pond basket it now? He also said I should dig down and see if there are better roots lower in the pot.

I'm trying to decide what to do with it. The seller thought a twin-trunk was a possibility but I'm thinking the main trunk is too high for that to look nice. I'm leaning towards removing the shorter "upright" trunk and going from there. What do you guys think?

 

[Pads]

I think there is some inverse taper. Can't really tell from the photos.

 

[Cable]

There is. I didn't notice until after I got it home. I think if I carve that knobby fucker I can minimize it.

 

[AZbonsai]

knobby fucker

Technical terms confuse me but that sounds like an idea. I have a cork bark that has the same problem wonder if it is a common trait. I left mine alone. Elms are pretty tough. I have been successful repotting now but I have also lost some. Maybe just pull it out of the pot and take a little closer look at the roots to see if there is any damage and go from there.

 

[jquast]

I'd back fill it with soil and leave it to the next potting season to work the roots. If you are new to bonsai and have not repotted before then take the conservative option otherwise you might be just throwing your money in the trash alongside a dead tree. I have many elms and do not touch the roots after they have leafed out.

 

[Cable]

Sure, I could do that. Probably should do that.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I do not believe that is a cork-bark Chinese elm...

Do you mind telling us where you got it? This vendor seems to be full of some questionable advice, and the material isn't the best - and wasn't cared for properly as pre-bonsai.

Despite all of that, in the case of Chinese elm, you have tons of options. I would NOT repot it now, personally, unless you were going to simply slip-pot it into something a little larger and wait for next spring. I wouldn't simply prune off the trunks... you can air-layer off what you don't want and end up with three trees that individually are better than the tree as it currently stands.

 

[TN_Jim]

It’s got some gnarl and moss up on it...can see the appeal. What did you give for it?

 

[Cable]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I do not believe that is a cork-bark Chinese elm...

Do you mind telling us where you got it? This vendor seems to be full of some questionable advice, and the material isn't the best - and wasn't cared for properly as pre-bonsai.

Despite all of that, in the case of Chinese elm, you have tons of options. I would NOT repot it now, personally, unless you were going to simply slip-pot it into something a little larger and wait for next spring. I wouldn't simply prune off the trunks... you can air-layer off what you don't want and end up with three trees that individually are better than the tree as it currently stands.

Ok, what do you think it is? I don’t know elms so I could only go by what he said. It was Ken’s World of Bonsai. There was a stick tag in the pot from the original source so Ken could have been mislead. Happens to us at Willoway all the time... we get a plant tagged one thing but it blooms another color!

Good advice. I didn’t even think about an air layer. I’m going to top off the soil like @jquast suggested and let it be until Spring. Then decide whether to keep the second trunk or air-layer it off.

It’s got some gnarl and moss up on it...can see the appeal. What did you give for it?

$30

 

[Cable]

FWIW, here's the tag...



Come to think of it, Ken never said it was a cork bark, he just referred to it as an elm. I got that from the tag.

 

[Zach Smith]

Chinese elms are generally not at their best this time of year, so if you can put off the major surgery till next spring you should. Be mindful of all those roots coiled around the inside of the pot against the outer edge. They'll suffer in the summer heat, adding to the stress. You might want to consider slip potting to a larger container with room for some soil on the outside of the root mass.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

FWIW, here's the tag...

View attachment 201392

Come to think of it, Ken never said it was a cork bark, he just referred to it as an elm. I got that from the tag.

Well if that is the correct tag, and he got it from Miniature Plant Kingdom, that tree has been in that pot a long time Miniature Plant Kingdom has been closed for about ten years

I may be wrong, but that looks like a standard Chinese elm to me. Here is an example of cork elm bark. See how thick the bark is and how it looks chunky and plated? Cork elm bark doesn't "flake" like your tree is showing. It comes off in chunks and looks like cork oak. (This example is the lower half of an air-layer after I had just removed the upper half - it is a nice little tree now).

I guess in some ways this pic is also an example of what you can do with YOUR elm. Right now it is straight and leggy and ugly - but air-layer it into pieces and you will be amazed at the difference - and you will have a lot more to work with!

 

[Cable]

He told me it was about 25 years old so if true, yeah, been in the pot a long time! Or could be a recycled tag for all I know!

I think I have some exploratory surgery to do and more pics to post.

 

[TN_Jim]

Ok, what do you think it is? I don’t know elms so I could only go by what he said. It was Ken’s World of Bonsai. There was a stick tag in the pot from the original source so Ken could have been mislead. Happens to us at Willoway all the time... we get a plant tagged one thing but it blooms another color!

Good advice. I didn’t even think about an air layer. I’m going to top off the soil like @jquast suggested and let it be until Spring. Then decide whether to keep the second trunk or air-layer it off.


$30

It would be neat to see your progression of airlayers if you choose to take this route (up for/time permitting of course.

There are an array of fantastic layering progressions here from very experienced folks; however, a thread where many folks could chime in, advise, and discuss alternatives step by step along the way...and you naturally choose the direction would also be very interesting...want to get (newly) serious with air and ground layering trees next year...just thinking out loud..

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I think I have some exploratory surgery to do and more pics to post.

FYI here is another pic of the tree stump I posted - this is after a couple of years of growing a new leader. This is what decades of no root work looks like Be prepared for some ugliness!

 

[Cable]

Holy crap, BNut! That tree is like...

It would be neat to see your progression of airlayers if you choose to take this route (up for/time permitting of course.

There are an array of fantastic layering progressions here from very experienced folks; however, a thread where many folks could chime in, advise, and discuss alternatives step by step along the way...and you naturally choose the direction would also be very interesting...want to get (newly) serious with air and ground layering trees next year...just thinking out loud..

I hate you guys. Forcing me to be patient just because it is the right thing to do! If I haven't lost my will and done something else I think I'll give that a try in the spring!

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I think pull off all of the moss from the trunk and slip pot into something larger.. maybe a terra-cotta for a couple years. And, I don't believe it is to late to attempt an air-layer. I often find I like the air-layers more than the mother trees and they tend to develop faster since you can pick the new trunk line. up near the top of the shorter of the two branches for the first attempt.

Next year take off most of that one huge thick root and try a couple more air-layers. Then two years out, go with the big chop.

 

[Cable]

I think pull off all of the moss from the trunk and slip pot into something larger.. maybe a terra-cotta for a couple years. And, I don't believe it is to late to attempt an air-layer. I often find I like the air-layers more than the mother trees and they tend to develop faster since you can pick the new trunk line. up near the top of the shorter of the two branches for the first attempt.

Next year take off most of that one huge thick root and try a couple more air-layers. Then two years out, go with the big chop.

I'm 4 weeks out before the 8 week window before the first frost. It is too late to safely do it in my zone.

I really like the moss on the trunk but acknowledge I'll be losing it. It reminds me of spanish moss on live oaks.

 

[wsteinhoff]

Perhaps you could layer at the red line and use that knob to make a wide base, cut back the trunk in yellow, and let the other trunk thicken and make a twin trunk that way. Or layer it at the same area but on more of an angle so the already thicker trunk in yellow is the main one and going upwards while the other trunk gets cut back.


I can't really tell from the photo but maybe there's a tree in this area too:

 

[wsteinhoff]

I did buy a "cork bark elm" from the same vendor at the show a couple years ago. The roots were just as bad as what Bonsai Nut posted if not a little worse.