First it was a shade house now I'm thinking humidity

[Eric Schrader]

I started building a shade house last August - here in Thousand Oaks it gets quite hot in August-October so I was looking for a way to keep my maples and a few other trees from burning.

Unfortunately it didn't really work. I'm not sure if it was the hot dry climate or the fungus problems I was having or a combination but as happened the previous year by the middle of September every leaf on almost every deciduous tree was half brown.

So, a month ago I decided to try covering it with row-cover fabric which will effectively kill all the hot-dry wind but hopefully allow the greenhouse to breath a bit more than plastic does. It took me a while but now I just have the door to figure out.

Anyone have experience with greenhouses in hot and dry climates? I'm going to keep half my maples inside and the other half outside to see what happens. I'm worried a bit about mold and other lack-of-air-circulation problems. Maybe I'll add a fan and one of those self-opening ceiling vents when I have some time. Interested in any advice you might have for greenhouses.

Cheers,

Eric

 

[Bonsaiforlife]

Why not try a shade cloth with a higher % of cover? It looks like the one you were using did not provide much shade. That way you still will have good air circulation. I used to live in eastern Oregon with temps in the summer easily 110 in the shade, much higher in full sun. I used a 60% shade cloth and a system of misters that would kick on every hour or so during hot spells, worked great with maples.

I think if you have air circulation problems you will end up with the air being even hotter inside the room.

 

[Eric Schrader]

Thanks Ed. I was using 40% on the top of the structure and 30% on the sides. I hesitate to use denser shade cloth because it causes the nodes to get long and the tree to go into shade mode. I have been thinking of using the 40% shade cloth on top of the fabric if it ends up getting too hot inside. I'll just have to see how it goes. I'm also thinking of setting up some misters to wet the ground under the bonsai and keep the humidity up. The watering system I have is for vacations it just sprinklers everything in my bonsai area.

 

[Bonsaiforlife]

That makes sense with the longer nodes, but one way to get around that is to place the cloth higher above the trees so they are shaded at the peak hot hours of the day but in morning and late afternoon they get partial sun.

Hope it works out.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Why go to the trouble to make and install a door? If all it is for is shade the door would be irrelevant.

 

[Klytus]

What kind of door?

Roll up and down,too basic.
Simple hinged outward opening,well thats sort of traditional.
Pair of thin doors,could be.
Door that folds in two.
Gullwing door.
Concertina door.
Sliding door,very Japanese.

 

[edprocoat]

To cut dowm on the mold you should treat the wood frame, it will keep the moisture out of the wood preventing wood rot and keeping the mold from forming on it. If you close the door it will get very hot, but the moisture will form on the ceiling (condensation) and then rain down on your plants cooling them working like a sprinkler system. If you vent it, the air will just evaporate the water in the hot environment. During the hottest parts of the day the condensation on the inside of the roof will cut down the light too.

ed

 

[Eric Schrader]

The real point is to prevent leaf burn and keep maples and other tender-leafed trees growing well through the hot dry windy summer season. This is my latest attempt at doing so. Last summer I thought that switching from tap water to RO water would do it - it helped but didn't solve all the problems. This summer I'm convinced that fungus control and humidity will be the key so I started with a shade house concept but found that it didn't seem to hold humidity at all, it just kept the trees from heating up quite as much.

As for the door - I'd love a slider because it wouldn't be in the way but I'll need to find some hardware to make it work. The easiest thing I think would be two smaller doors opening to either side- I can get the hardware for that at the local hardware store.

Ed - thanks for your reply - you mention a couple things that I had not considered. I've thought of venting it but I'm going to see how things go in the next couple months. I haven't made the door so perhaps that will be my vent for a while. I covered it in the row fabric rather than regular plastic because it allows some air to penetrate rather than staying stagnant.

 

[JudyB]

Have you ever tried using Pro-Teck? It's something I add to my watering program in the summer at times....sounds like it might be helpful for your problem.

 

[rock]

Burnt leaves on J.Maples are a pain in So cal. I am in the same climate as you. So 20 plus years of experimenting , I found a solution. Im convinced because we have such a long growing season, and leaves come out in Feb, the leaves are hardening off in May grey, you know. these leaves are not at all ready for what is to come in the summer.

I am in full sun. so as you know we get June gloom and July hot cool cycle. but in Aug we always get a hot santa Ana.
that starts it. the margin burning. Heavy burned leaves dont photosynthesize well. If left the tree gets weak and sometimes will not have enough to make it to the next spring.

what I do is hit it with heavy organics late July early Aug. YOu get a flush, let them go.
When the margin burn gets about a quarter inch, I defoliate...totally
the tree is still strong from lots of sun, tons of water(yes,cal-tap) and fert.

Defoliate trim and wire, even transplant, Ive had good success .
So these new leaves come out in Aug. they are much stronger and will take you through to Oct 15th when it seems to start to cool. Of course they burn again but less and they will have enough power to store and then make it to the following Feb leaf out

some might say its too risky to do that, well I sez Ive never lost a tree this way, but dozens by just sitting there watching them waste away with margin burned leaves.

Result you have the most glorious display March- June, Sept-Oct, the other months well not so much but this tree is so great Ill take what I can get !

Rock...out

 

[rock]

The real point is to prevent leaf burn and keep maples and other tender-leafed trees growing well through the hot dry windy summer season.

Eric,
sounds like you are on to a solution for you. Just for me and So cal...

Burnt leaves on J.Maples are a pain in So cal. I am in the same climate as you. So 20 plus years of experimenting , I found a solution. Im convinced because we have such a long growing season, and leaves come out in Feb, the leaves are hardening off in May grey, you know. these leaves are not at all ready for what is to come in the summer.

I am in full sun. so as you know we get June gloom and July hot cool cycle. but in Aug we always get a hot santa Ana.
that starts it. the margin burning. Heavy burned leaves dont photosynthesize well. If left the tree gets weak and sometimes will not have enough to make it to the next spring.

what I do is hit it with heavy organics late July early Aug. YOu get a flush, let them go.
When the margin burn gets about a quarter inch, I defoliate...totally
the tree is still strong from lots of sun, tons of water(yes,cal-tap) and fert.

Defoliate trim and wire, even transplant, Ive had good success .
So these new leaves come out in Aug. they are much stronger and will take you through to Oct 15th when it seems to start to cool. Of course they burn again but less and they will have enough power to store and then make it to the following Feb leaf out

some might say its too risky to do that, well I sez Ive never lost a tree this way, but dozens by just sitting there watching them waste away with margin burned leaves.

Result you have the most glorious display March- June, Sept-Oct, the other months well not so much but this tree is so great Ill take what I can get !

Rock...out

 

[cmeg1]

did you ever try wood lattice structure?I am probally completely un-aware of the heat you are dealing with,but lattice worked beautifully for maples I had in the past.The perfect part sun environment.

 

[Eric Schrader]

Rock - thanks. I think most of my maples defoliated themselves in the middle of last summer and then leafed out again in the late fall-summer. I can't tell if they're weaker for this mid-season interruption but I think that they are. When I lived in San Francisco I would defoliate completely only once every other year so this "natural" defoliation is a bit more harsh.

I think one issue I had last season is that I fertilized less than i should have. I had always used home-made fert cakes but the rodents took all of them which discouraged me. This spring I changed the formula (no more fish meal) and so far I haven't lost them to the rodents. With better fertilizing and the wind control/ humidity increase that this enclosure will afford I think I might just get them going really well this year.

Cheers,

Eric

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

This spring I changed the formula (no more fish meal) and so far I haven't lost them to the rodents.

Eric

Eric,
What is the "no fishmeal formula"? Have the same problem here with chipmunks and squirrels.

 

[Eric Schrader]

4 parts cottonseed meal
1 part bone meal
1 part blood meal
enough all purpose flour to make it stick - I use about 1 cup to about probably 8 cups of cottonseed meal.
wet with water, allow to sit 1/2 hour, add more water if it is too dry to scoop and then either scoop it onto the plants on a sunny day or dry it on screen racks before putting onto the plants.

I previously used fish meal instead of flour. Before that I tried using fish emulsion to wet the mixture but it took a lot of fish emulsion and I thought it might be too strong initially for the plants.

 

[rock]

Eric,
Sounds like you have it nailed, good job. We are are in agreement on the defoliation by heat/drought, that does make them weaker. Being proactive with fert and a early defol, make it better.

We also agree fetilizer cakes AKA stinky puffs...

 

[rock]

ready to rock

 

[rock]

View attachment 20991

ready to rock