first pinus rigida yamadori session

jaycraig

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so i just did my first yamadori collections (6 in total) and i have a bunch questions im hoping you guys can enlighten me on. for soil the long anderson bands i used 4-6 mm pumice and for the rest i used 1-2 mm akadama, lava rock and turface 1:1:1.

first, are the root systems, do they look healthy enough for the pots that i have them in? (the 2 long anderson bands i plan on making into an exposed root in the future, also i gave the ends a clean cut after these pictures)

second, how do i proceed with pruning and the whole candle situation? i dont know when and how to prune them

third, is it too soon to shape them? as yall can see i already went ahead with one of the smaller ones i couldnt help myself and its my first ever wiring a whole tree

lastly how do i proceed from here with them, do i just water them regularly and do they need any type of protection?

also if you guys have into extra advice or video recommendations id love to hear it




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Shibui

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When were these collected?
Collected deciduous can cope with root prune and chop at the same time but collected conifers need everything they have to grow new roots. We usually leave collected pines for a year, sometimes 2 to make sure the roots are strong before doing further pruning or wiring.
For now protection from hot afternoon sun and winds, also probably from freezing if that's still happening in your area.
Keep the soil damp but not wet, cross fingers and wait.
Collected trees often grow strongly through spring but are surviving only on energy stored in the trunk and roots. If they don't manage to grow new roots death follows quickly. I never count pines as successful until after mid summer and they still have good growth.

You have a whole year, at least, to find out about pruning and managing candles, etc. so no hurry to get info and definitely no hurry to apply that to new collected pines.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I love the enthusiasm but judging from the pictures I can't help to think "if only he went 6 inches further down to get more feeder roots".
Rigida is fairly new to me, but if these were scots pines I'd give them a 30% chance of making it. Which isn't a lot.

But then again, you have to start learning somehow and somewhere. These are young and they might push through.
 

Potawatomi13

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judging from the pictures I can't help to think "if only he went 6 inches further down to get more feeder roots".
Rigida is fairly new to me, but if these were scots pines I'd give them a 30% chance of making it. Which isn't a lot.
Indeed. Water, hottest sun protection, try 1/2 strength liquid rooting hormone(one dose). Otherwise LEAVE ALONE! See if survival ensues:confused:. Only when/IF robust strength displays self should any work be done at least 1 more likely 2 years in future..
 

jaycraig

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When were these collected?
Collected deciduous can cope with root prune and chop at the same time but collected conifers need everything they have to grow new roots. We usually leave collected pines for a year, sometimes 2 to make sure the roots are strong before doing further pruning or wiring.
For now protection from hot afternoon sun and winds, also probably from freezing if that's still happening in your area.
Keep the soil damp but not wet, cross fingers and wait.
Collected trees often grow strongly through spring but are surviving only on energy stored in the trunk and roots. If they don't manage to grow new roots death follows quickly. I never count pines as successful until after mid summer and they still have good growth.

You have a whole year, at least, to find out about pruning and managing candles, etc. so no hurry to get info and definitely no hurry to apply that to new collected pines.
the smaller ones were collected sunday, the rest yesterday.

so pretty much if there is no signs of growt after mid summer consider them dead? and if that turns out to be the case is mid summer good for yamadori hunting? cause im not giving up
 

jaycraig

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I love the enthusiasm but judging from the pictures I can't help to think "if only he went 6 inches further down to get more feeder roots".
Rigida is fairly new to me, but if these were scots pines I'd give them a 30% chance of making it. Which isn't a lot.

But then again, you have to start learning somehow and somewhere. These are young and they might push through.
so you’re saying there’s a fair chance all my trees die? oh great. let’s cross fingers tho

for the next time should i leave as much of the original soil intact or matters not?
 

Flowerhouse

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so pretty much if there is no signs of growt after mid summer consider them dead?
They may not put on new growth this year after the setback of being collected and root pruned. As long as they keep their current needles soft and green there is hope for their survival.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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so you’re saying there’s a fair chance all my trees die? oh great. let’s cross fingers tho

for the next time should i leave as much of the original soil intact or matters not?
There is a fair chance. Pines need their fine feeder roots because they partially supply auxins to the branch tips. And they use more water than one would expect.
The more roots you can dig up, the higher the chances of survival.
As a matter of fact, pines can be bare rooted, wired, chopped in a single go if the rootsystem isn't damaged too much and they will not skip a beat. In theory most young pines can regenerate from being cut bare even, as long as the roots stay intact.
In the seedling stage, we can make cuttings from pines, so they can regrow the rootsystem entirely. But the older they get, the slimmer the chances of survival become. I think year 5 or 6 is about the maximum age for decent success rates.
Yours are about that age, I estimate.

Again, you can't learn if you don't make mistakes and I support the enthusiasm. But I'm also saying that it might be good to not get your hopes up too much.
 

Shibui

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the smaller ones were collected sunday, the rest yesterday.

so pretty much if there is no signs of growt after mid summer consider them dead? and if that turns out to be the case is mid summer good for yamadori hunting? cause im not giving up
Very recent collections! Please take note of all the advice to let pines alone for a year or more until they have recovered. Too much pruning or bending may push trees over the edge.

By mid summer they should either still be green or will be yellowing or brown. At that stage the green ones have an excellent chance of surviving. Any with green needles and new shoots are well on the way to recovery and may even be strong enough for some initial styling work in fall, winter or the following spring. Those that have survived transplant (still green) but with very small new shoots should be left alone for another year to gain strength before styling.

Mid summer is a good time to hunt but there is difference of opinion on whether mid summer collecting is possible or good. Most collectors seem to focus on spring collection. Some collect in late summer while there's still warmth to grow new roots. I have seen occasional mention of summer collection but unsure of the survival rates or collection zones.
Results are likely to vary with species, methods and climates. If there's plenty of small ones like these available you could do some trials to see what works for this species in your area before trying to transplant older, more desirable specimens.
 

yashu

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For future reference, try to bring more soil and root… I’d say as much as you physically can. My trees that are so far successfull were removed with as little disturbance of the root system as possible. Attached is one as collected and basically the whole mess was put into a free draining vessel with course substrate packed around it, I use washed bark mulch and course DE (because I can’t easily access pumice for cheap) and am having success.7AA87837-CEF8-4D93-85D0-773BC3078860.jpeg
 

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