First Real Bonsai Project, Need Guidance

[Jkt97477]

Hello all,

I'm new to bonsai, be gentle!

To start, the tree in question has the name " Juniperus chinensis 'Daub's Frosted' " and I live near Eugene, Oregon in zone 8b. This is the first tree I've started working on in an effort to learn how to bonsai so even if I don't get it to survive this will be a learning experience for me.

Anyways, after a short stint researching how to get started (but of course missing the finer details haha) I picked up a tree from a local nursery and I started trying to "Find the front" and in the process of doing that I removed quite a bit from this poor juniper. I then got stumped (haha) and did some more reading and there is so much information out there, some that seems to contradict itself that I am quite lost and afraid to proceed.

First, I read that I may have cut off too much and this juniper may now be in danger as a result which is sad to me, but I will try my best to care for it and remember the lesson going forward.

Second, I read that it may be the wrong time of year to prune this juniper.

Lastly, I did not know about branch dieback when I lopped off some of these branches, but I now realize I should have left a bit of branch at the base near the trunk.

I have some bonsai wire in various sizes on order and it should be here soon but now I'm not even sure that I should proceed with wiring it, would that harm the tree or reduce its chances of making it through the winter?

What do you guys and gals think of my chances of helping this juniper make it through the winter? Any tips to improve my chances? What about wiring branches, will that impact things?

I didn't take a really good "Before" picture because I didn't think about it, but I took this picture of the base of the tree when I was trying to visualize the front, you can kinda see how much foliage was there before I started lopping away.

 

[yashu]

You’re asking all the right questions but I’ll let someone more versed in this cultivar answer for you. That’s a pretty nice tree so far, good stuff to start with. Welcome and good luck

 

[Jkt97477]

You’re asking all the right questions but I’ll let someone more versed in this cultivar answer for you. That’s a pretty nice tree so far, good stuff to start with. Welcome and good luck

Thank you! I don't quite have the eye for bonsai just yet, but I felt like it had some potential, so I took a chance on it I'm glad you like it too!

 

[Housguy]

At this point, I would wire the branches and start trying to imagine a style best for the tree and once you decide on a look for it, bend the branches to produce you image, but be careful not to break any branches in the process. After that, let it recover for a while and get more foliage growing closer to the trunk. Good luck!

 

[Jkt97477]

At this point, I would wire the branches and start trying to imagine a style best for the tree and once you decide on a look for it, bend the branches to produce you image, but be careful not to break any branches in the process. After that, let it recover for a while and get more foliage growing closer to the trunk. Good luck!

Thank you for the words of encouragement! Regardless of what happens in definitely going to give the poor tree some time to recover. I'm just hoping I didn't sign its death sentence by cutting off so much or at the wrong time of year haha .

I will wire it up when my wire arrives and start getting ideas

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

One thing I'd like to point out, with all due respect, is that junipers can have a tough time budding back. When working rough stock for the first time, we tend to work from the outside towards the trunk. This compacts the tree and it gives us opportunities to strengthen the interior foliage that we'll be using to grow branches out(wards) again.
When following internet guidelines, a couple of the first things you'll read and hear are "remove weak interioir foliage". I think that that advice is wrong, for beginners at least. Because people tend to end up with bare branches with tufts of foliage on the ends.
Bare branches with tufts require backbudding and adds some uncertainty to the process; if those buds don't pop up, or take years to develop, you're stuck with difficult to design branches.

No worries, we've all been there I think. But it might help you in the future.

 

[Jkt97477]

One thing I'd like to point out, with all due respect, is that junipers can have a tough time budding back. When working rough stock for the first time, we tend to work from the outside towards the trunk. This compacts the tree and it gives us opportunities to strengthen the interior foliage that we'll be using to grow branches out(wards) again.
When following internet guidelines, a couple of the first things you'll read and hear are "remove weak interioir foliage". I think that that advice is wrong, for beginners at least. Because people tend to end up with bare branches with tufts of foliage on the ends.
Bare branches with tufts require backbudding and adds some uncertainty to the process; if those buds don't pop up, or take years to develop, you're stuck with difficult to design branches.

No worries, we've all been there I think. But it might help you in the future.

Thank you for your response, I really appreciate it!

This is another thing I can't quite wrap my mind around just yet, the information that I was reading on Junipers made it seem that the tree will back bud on a branch so long as I keep foliage on said branch. I guess I will just keep apologizing profusely to my juniper and watch it (hopefully) grow so that I can make some observations and start to understand the process. Do you have any recommendations for reputable resources for beginners? I hate asking that question on forums because people tend to respond with "Just search" and I really do get that, but I have been searching and it seems like I've come up with poor quality sources of information haha.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Thank you for your response, I really appreciate it!

This is another thing I can't quite wrap my mind around just yet, the information that I was reading on Junipers made it seem that the tree will back bud on a branch so long as I keep foliage on said branch. I guess I will just keep apologizing profusely to my juniper and watch it (hopefully) grow so that I can make some observations and start to understand the process. Do you have any recommendations for reputable resources for beginners? I hate asking that question on forums because people tend to respond with "Just search" and I really do get that, but I have been searching and it seems like I've come up with poor quality sources of information haha.

I can't really say I have any recommendations other than Hartinez's house money juniper thread.
In my own guy wires collection thread you can see what I did to a blaauw juniper on post 217 and 218 (page 11). It was the first time for me that something clicked right with junipers and ever since I'm having a breeze with design decisions.
The smoke and mirrors thread by smoke / bananaman is a good resource too.

 

[Jkt97477]

I can't really say I have any recommendations other than Hartinez's house money juniper thread.
In my own guy wires collection thread you can see what I did to a blaauw juniper on post 217 and 218 (page 11). It was the first time for me that something clicked right with junipers and ever since I'm having a breeze with design decisions.
The smoke and mirrors thread by smoke / bananaman is a good resource too.

Thank you I will check those threads out

 

[Shibui]

Anyways, after a short stint researching how to get started (but of course missing the finer details haha) I picked up a tree from a local nursery and I started trying to "Find the front" and in the process of doing that I removed quite a bit from this poor juniper. I then got stumped (haha) and did some more reading and there is so much information out there, some that seems to contradict itself that I am quite lost and afraid to proceed.

One of the curses of the internet is that anyone can publish so there's a lot of misinformation and misguided advice out there to make the real info harder and harder to find.
You'll also find the problem that sometimes seemingly contradictory info can all be correct for different places, different times of year etc. Living things do react differently to the same treatment in different places and times of year etc. Try not to be discouraged by the doomsayers. Try to find some sites that seem reliable and follow that advice for a start.

First, I read that I may have cut off too much and this juniper may now be in danger as a result which is sad to me, but I will try my best to care for it and remember the lesson going forward.

Second, I read that it may be the wrong time of year to prune this juniper.

Oregon can be cold in winter so there may be something to the time of year warning but I certainly work with junipers all year round down here.
Removing half of a juniper foliage at one time is no problem. Most will survive even more reduction. There are lots of things that can kill junipers (indeed, all species) in beginners' hands. If this one dies I doubt it will be because of your pruning.

Lastly, I did not know about branch dieback when I lopped off some of these branches, but I now realize I should have left a bit of branch at the base near the trunk.

In my experience junipers don't suffer die back after pruning branches. Certainly branch stubs will usually die back to the trunk or the closest living branch but the only time I've seen die back in trunks is on much older trees where sap paths between individual branches and roots are very strong. Even if such a thing were to happen dead wood (jin and shari) is a great addition to juniper bonsai styling. Younger trees usually just heal over pruning scars in a few years.

I have some bonsai wire in various sizes on order and it should be here soon but now I'm not even sure that I should proceed with wiring it, would that harm the tree or reduce its chances of making it through the winter?

I've seen claims that wire on trees in cold winters can cause problems but cannot vouch for that. I'd be surprised if all cold climate bonsai growers removed wire through winter, especially as late summer/ autumn is the approved time of year to apply wire to junipers. Wiring and bending in spring can cause some branches to die back so best to avoid wiring in the active growing season.
There is also a school of bonsai thought that advocates not doing too much to junipers at one time. Some junipers need time to recover from one assault before they can cope with another.
our experts don't seem to think twice about pruning and then wiring in a single session but it IS worth developing patience. (Good) Bonsai is not a sprint so learn to take your time.

This is another thing I can't quite wrap my mind around just yet, the information that I was reading on Junipers made it seem that the tree will back bud on a branch so long as I keep foliage on said branch.

Junipers will back bud but it does take some time - sometimes a few years. Much better to use what is there if at all possible rather than waiting years for new shoots to develop so, in a sense, both these seemingly contradictory approaches are correct.

Hope the little juniper does well.
Welcome to the nuthouse.

 

[Jkt97477]

One of the curses of the internet is that anyone can publish so there's a lot of misinformation and misguided advice out there to make the real info harder and harder to find.
You'll also find the problem that sometimes seemingly contradictory info can all be correct for different places, different times of year etc. Living things do react differently to the same treatment in different places and times of year etc. Try not to be discouraged by the doomsayers. Try to find some sites that seem reliable and follow that advice for a start.


Oregon can be cold in winter so there may be something to the time of year warning but I certainly work with junipers all year round down here.
Removing half of a juniper foliage at one time is no problem. Most will survive even more reduction. There are lots of things that can kill junipers (indeed, all species) in beginners' hands. If this one dies I doubt it will be because of your pruning.


In my experience junipers don't suffer die back after pruning branches. Certainly branch stubs will usually die back to the trunk or the closest living branch but the only time I've seen die back in trunks is on much older trees where sap paths between individual branches and roots are very strong. Even if such a thing were to happen dead wood (jin and shari) is a great addition to juniper bonsai styling. Younger trees usually just heal over pruning scars in a few years.


I've seen claims that wire on trees in cold winters can cause problems but cannot vouch for that. I'd be surprised if all cold climate bonsai growers removed wire through winter, especially as late summer/ autumn is the approved time of year to apply wire to junipers. Wiring and bending in spring can cause some branches to die back so best to avoid wiring in the active growing season.
There is also a school of bonsai thought that advocates not doing too much to junipers at one time. Some junipers need time to recover from one assault before they can cope with another.
our experts don't seem to think twice about pruning and then wiring in a single session but it IS worth developing patience. (Good) Bonsai is not a sprint so learn to take your time.


Junipers will back bud but it does take some time - sometimes a few years. Much better to use what is there if at all possible rather than waiting years for new shoots to develop so, in a sense, both these seemingly contradictory approaches are correct.

Hope the little juniper does well.
Welcome to the nuthouse.

Haha the nuthouse indeed!


Thank you for your kind words and direction, I am certainly feeling a large dose of overwhelmed when it comes to the art of bonsai but I really do want to learn. I am not going to let myself be discouraged, I am going to read some threads pointed out by Wires_guy_wires and also have a mind to go to the book store / library and find some resources there. I'm thinking I may prefer having a book in hand than the wide internet haha