First real winters night

[Cajunrider]

Last night was the coldest so far 38 deg F. I think we will stay above freezing going into January. All my trees are still outside including the tropical guavas, tamarinds, rainbow eucalyptus, etc.
I am cleaning up the garage to bring them in if needed in January.

 

[Cajunrider]

Last night was the coldest so far 38 deg F. I think we will stay above freezing going into January. All my trees are still outside including the tropical guavas, tamarinds, rainbow eucalyptus, etc.
I am cleaning up the garage to bring them in if needed in January.

 

[Carol 83]

It was in the 20's this morning, such a heavy frost, I thought it had snowed. Lots of accidents according to the news because of black ice on bridges and overpasses. It's supposed to be close to 60 on Christmas.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

-6°C / 21°F here tonight.
Stay frosty peeps!

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

There is no frost next the the house like a foot out from it too… anyone here ever measure the temperature difference or thoughts on how to do that?

A couple of us are doing a citizen science study this winter on the differences in temperature vs various methods of protection/non protection.

An approximately 4 month long study using trees in basic APL media, measuring the media temp in pots with trees in various situations with a cool meat thermometer that goes to -40F.
In my case:

1. On shelf alone vs air temperature.
2. No overhead protection Sitting on soil, dug into soil & mulched in vs soil temp (in place)
3. Overhead protection - Sitting on soil, dug into soil & mulched in vs soil temp (in place)
4. Sitting in cold frame, dug in inside cold frame vs soil temp inside cold frame.
5. On shelf vs air temperature inside greenhouses.

Just for interest.... while its on the edge of late to begin work, if a couple folks would be interested to join in, PM me asap. It would especially helpful, but not mandatory, to gather data in Zone 6b, 7 or 9.

If considering volunteering: One would be able to:

• gather data at least 2x a week (the more data the better... data takes about 1 minute a sample reading). Time off for vacation is ok
• have trees in pots with the same media. pots >=7 ID" overall preferred (not exactly the same size is ok, but desirable). APL media is preferred but not req'd
• record data properly / enter in excel and send for processing or.... fill out paper data table and send via email/mail.
• have enough trees in pots to collect data for at least trials 1 & 2 above (3 trees) but including trial 3 and/or 4 would be especially nice.
• have at least one tree hardy enough to survive the winter on a shelf in a pot and another on the ground (I'm using a Mugo pine on the shelf)

I will provide the thermometer, data table and procedures.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Shogun610]

A couple of us are doing a citizen science study this winter on the differences in temperature vs various methods of protection/non protection.

An approximately 4 month long study using trees in basic APL media, measuring the media temp in pots with trees in various situations with a cool meat thermometer that goes to -40F.
In my case:

1. On shelf alone vs air temperature.
2. No overhead protection Sitting on soil, dug into soil & mulched in vs soil temp (in place)
3. Overhead protection - Sitting on soil, dug into soil & mulched in vs soil temp (in place)
4. Sitting in cold frame, dug in inside cold frame vs soil temp inside cold frame.
5. On shelf vs air temperature inside greenhouses.

Just for interest.... while its on the edge of late to begin work, if a couple folks would be interested to join in, PM me asap. It would especially helpful, but not mandatory, to gather data in Zone 6b, 7 or 9.

If considering volunteering: One would be able to:

• gather data at least 2x a week (the more data the better... data takes about 1 minute a sample reading). Time off for vacation is ok
• have trees in pots with the same media. pots >=7 ID" overall preferred (not exactly the same size is ok, but desirable). APL media is preferred but not req'd
• record data properly / enter in excel and send for processing or.... fill out paper data table and send via email/mail.
• have enough trees in pots to collect data for at least trials 1 & 2 above (3 trees) but including trial 3 and/or 4 would be especially nice.
• have at least one tree hardy enough to survive the winter on a shelf in a pot and another on the ground (I'm using a Mugo pine on the shelf)

I will provide the thermometer, data table and procedures.

Cheers
DSD sends

What about a category for just placed on ground next to a house with wind protection on all times and not mulched in?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Sure. That would definitely be interesting. Not in the present scope…but I’m open. I didn’t have enough samples here though.

The basic overall idea is to compare the “layers of protection” concept to over wintering bonsai.

There would need to be a comparison though. What would you suggest as the comparison trial In this situation? Unsheltered on the ground would be one comparison to test the concept.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[penumbra]

cool meat thermometer that goes to -40F.

Where does one find such a thing? All the meat therms I looked at are for cooking meat not freezing it.

 

[Shogun610]

Sure. That would definitely be interesting. Not in the present scope…but I’m open. I didn’t have enough samples here though.

The basic overall idea is to compare the “layers of protection” concept to over wintering bonsai.

There would need to be a comparison though. What would you suggest as the comparison trial In this situation? Unsheltered on the ground would be one comparison to test the concept.

cheers
DSD sends

cold frame with open roof… yeah Healed in with mulch vs just on ground ?

 

[River's Edge]

-3.5 C 26 F this morning, hoar frost and some snow on the ground. Closed unheated greenhouse sitting at 2 degrees Celsius. Opened the doors before lunch to prevent over heating the trees stored inside as the sun began to rise.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

cold frame with open roof… yeah Healed in with mulch vs just on ground ?

That would work. Interested PM me please.
cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Where does one find such a thing? All the meat therms I looked at are for cooking meat not freezing it.

Ok, just to be kosher here with your thread, it was 32F last night. Tonight is supposed to be 33F.

Thermometers merely measure the thermal energy a substance possesses…or for some folks perhaps an overall gauge of molecular movement.

Its basically the same measuring a substance with high thermal energy or low thermal energy as long as one has the proper measuring range in an instrument.

At first when we tried a fancy Uber accurate scientific thermometer it was way too complicated. Accurate, but crazy hard to get point data.

So it came down to finding a reasonably accurate IP67 waterproof thermometer that would have a small measuring footprint and the proper temperature range and consistency where the data wasn’t being taken at an extreme of its range of measurement.

Thus we ended up with these handy little guys. They have a wide range -58°F to 572°F (-50°C to 300°C). These can be easily stuck in bonsai media and if freezing is occurring, a piece of a meat skewer can be placed in the observing position between measurements. I’ve made 15 trials of15 measurements each to date. Repeated measurements were within 0.2F, mostly less. It even has a lighted display if night/dark readings need to be taken.

Thus the meat thermometers get the nod for citizen science! The cool thang is if the probe is cleaned off after one’s measurements are complete it can be used on your steak… or ice cream!

Best
DSD sends

 

[leatherback]

Where does one find such a thing? All the meat therms I looked at are for cooking meat not freezing it.

There are official temperature logger cards normally used in transport: Monitoring cold-chains. When I was working in ecology we had a few dozen credit-card sized temperature loggers spread out throughout the research area to better understand effect of canopy shading &And how temperature affects elephant movement). Downside.. We were only able to recover half of them, lol. But in a citizen science experiment usefull as you can get these cards for reasonable costs, leave them in-situ for weeks to months on end, and then collect and read the stored measurements.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

You are spot on @leatherback! That is definitely a great idea.

I did a good deal of research on a number of temperature logger card/fob options, from Inkbird, Elitech etc… and chose otherwise as I would need to immerse these in the media of the pots with trees already in them….

So size, initial and later root disturbance, possible effect on root area where the card or fob would be inserted and inability to pull these out periodically to check function held me back. These could be used for air and soil temps though, but I thought having mixed instrumentation would be a bit of an issue. So old school it is for now.

If one ran a similar study with no tree in the pot, these would be excellent. Yet I got hung up with the effect of the tree being in the media vs not…. less media/ air space and possible insulating effect of the wood/roots…. Likely non issues yet….

Maybe later on down the line.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Perrywinkle]

Last night got down to 39F (3.8C) here in Houston. I put everything tropical into my small greenhouse from Amazon and put a big ole incandescent lamp in there to heat things up.

 

[penumbra]

Ok, just to be kosher here with your thread, it was 32F last night. Tonight is supposed to be 33F.

Thermometers merely measure the thermal energy a substance possesses…or for some folks perhaps an overall gauge of molecular movement.

Its basically the same measuring a substance with high thermal energy or low thermal energy as long as one has the proper measuring range in an instrument.

At first when we tried a fancy Uber accurate scientific thermometer it was way too complicated. Accurate, but crazy hard to get point data.

So it came down to finding a reasonably accurate IP67 waterproof thermometer that would have a small measuring footprint and the proper temperature range and consistency where the data wasn’t being taken at an extreme of its range of measurement.

Thus we ended up with these handy little guys. They have a wide range -58°F to 572°F (-50°C to 300°C). These can be easily stuck in bonsai media and if freezing is occurring, a piece of a meat skewer can be placed in the observing position between measurements. I’ve made 15 trials of15 measurements each to date. Repeated measurements were within 0.2F, mostly less. It even has a lighted display if night/dark readings need to be taken.

Thus the meat thermometers get the nod for citizen science! The cool thang is if the probe is cleaned off after one’s measurements are complete it can be used on your steak… or ice cream!

Best
DSD sends

I know how a thermometer works but my two don't go lower than 140 F or higher than 190 F. I have had them for decades. I guess you are saying there are newer therms (probably digital) that measures negative temps as well? The link you posted will not open for me. But no matter, if these are out there I will find them.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yes. Things are so much more advanced (and cheap) for mundane items nowadays! So sorry about the link.

Cheers

DSD sends

Digital Instant Read Meat... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09GG15HL9?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[penumbra]

Yes. Things are so much more advanced (and cheap) for mundane items nowadays! So sorry about the link.

Cheers

DSD sends

Digital Instant Read Meat... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09GG15HL9?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Thanks for the info. That's pretty cool. I will have to get one of those.

 

[Shogun610]

It’s going down to 10 tonight.. I have a tarp over my trees just to hold the thermal heat from the home in since they’re next to the house. There is still snow over them too so there is insulation that way… am I over thinking it ?

 

[penumbra]

It’s going down to 10 tonight.. I have a tarp over my trees just to hold the thermal heat from the home in since they’re next to the house. There is still snow over them too so there is insulation that way… am I over thinking it ?

Probably, but better safe than sorry.
Generally a good snow coating is more than adequate insulation.