First steps when harvesting a tree?

[Hannahmm]

Hello nutters!
I just had a question on recommend first steps when harvesting trees from nature? These are all Juniper trees. I live in grow zone 6a at the base of the Steens mountains it can be VERY windy so I do my best to provide protection from fatal drying winds. Anyway haven't harvested anything yet of course wrong time of year but might as well learn and plan now? Any advice would be great!

Thanks in advance!

 

[rockm]

Hello nutters!
I just had a question on recommend first steps when harvesting trees from nature? These are all Juniper trees. I live in grow zone 6a at the base of the Steens mountains it can be VERY windy so I do my best to provide protection from fatal drying winds. Anyway haven't harvested anything yet of course wrong time of year but might as well learn and plan now? Any advice would be great!

Thanks in advance!

Wind is the least of your problems, if you're collecting for the first time and you've chosen junipers as your initial species to cut your collecting teeth on.

The species is not all that easy to collect even for experienced collectors and post-dig survival percentages can be 50%.

You have asked a complex question with no real concrete answer. Collecting trees depends greatly on location and species. Junipers are not easy to collect, they're damn near impossible for first -timers to get out alive. I would wait a while and get some experience with collecting less challenging species before going after them (this is triply true if the trees are very old and picturesque) you kill them, it will take another 200 years to make more.

 

[Hannahmm]

Wind is the least of your problems, if you're collecting for the first time and you've chosen junipers as your initial species to cut your collecting teeth on.

The species is not all that easy to collect even for experienced collectors and post-dig survival percentages can be 50%.

You have asked a complex question with no real concrete answer. Collecting trees depends greatly on location and species. Junipers are not easy to collect, they're damn near impossible for first -timers to get out alive. I would wait a while and get some experience with collecting less challenging species before going after them (this is triply true if the trees are very old and picturesque) you kill them, it will take another 200 years to make more.

Well the only other "trees species" is a trashy brush willow so it's my only option around here. it' high desert so greesewood, sagebrush and juniper are what grows here. I wouldn't attempt a more specimen tree for just your reasoning I have very little experience. I have a collected a tamarack three pondarosas and what a few people have said are fir trees all are doing well i do have one small juniper and it's thriving as well. But never have I harvested anything very big. If I get the chance to elsewhere this spring I will take your advice and look for different species. I'll save the really nice specimen for knowledgeable people I appreciate your feedback. I had never guessed juniper would be hard to harvest. They are considered a nuisance weed around here.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Start with less picturesque junipers, work the bugs out of the system. Part of the issue is finding trees that have enough roots close enough to the trunk. Rock pans or rock pockets tend to be better. When you get your success rate up to 50% or better, then go for the picturesque junipers. Experiment with timing too. Earlier versus later. Keep notes.

 

[Japonicus]

Start with less picturesque junipers, work the bugs out of the system. Part of the issue is finding trees that have enough roots close enough to the trunk. Rock pans or rock pockets tend to be better. When you get your success rate up to 50% or better, then go for the picturesque junipers. Experiment with timing too. Earlier versus later. Keep notes.

Added to my watched threads as I'm peeking at some BPs as I drive home from work.
Would it be beneficial for Hannahmm to spade/slice the roots this year and leave the intended prize in its' home?
What about watering after spading with B1 and mycorrhizal fungi and or rooting hormone to make an attempt at
moving the root zone closer to the tree?
I've been trying to keep an eye out for trees in rocky pocket like settings like you've mentioned.

 

[River's Edge]

Added to my watched threads as I'm peeking at some BPs as I drive home from work.
Would it be beneficial for Hannahmm to spade/slice the roots this year and leave the intended prize in its' home?
What about watering after spading with B1 and mycorrhizal fungi and or rooting hormone to make an attempt at
moving the root zone closer to the tree?
I've been trying to keep an eye out for trees in rocky pocket like settings like you've mentioned.

No it would be better to gain an understanding of juniper roots and learn how to select a tree that is removeable. Chopping juniper roots without seeing what section they feed and where they divide is a recipe for disaster.

 

[PiñonJ]

Hello nutters!
I just had a question on recommend first steps when harvesting trees from nature? These are all Juniper trees. I live in grow zone 6a at the base of the Steens mountains it can be VERY windy so I do my best to provide protection from fatal drying winds. Anyway haven't harvested anything yet of course wrong time of year but might as well learn and plan now? Any advice would be great!

Thanks in advance!

Start with smaller specimens, don't prune any foliage and collect them within a few days of their receiving some decent rainfall. Clear away some topsoil and if you don't see evidence of a good fine root system, don't bother collecting.

 

[Japonicus]

No it would be better to gain an understanding of juniper roots and learn how to select a tree that is removeable. Chopping juniper roots without seeing what section they feed and where they divide is a recipe for disaster.

Thanks Frank. I've never collected juniper, only pine and spruce. The fungi would probably be redundant in ground too.
Would actually be nice to know the size juniper to be collected too.

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks Frank. I've never collected juniper, only pine and spruce. The fungi would probably be redundant in ground too.
Would actually be nice to know the size juniper to be collected too.

I agree with Piñon J , start small, learn how to trace live veins and root position. Collect when the time is right for the tree and its current condition.

 

[Potawatomi13]

First find tree. Second find IF tree is collectible. Believe Andy Smith or another collector has book on how to do. Internet search. Be good and do not kill needlessly wild trees.

 

[sorce]

Preparation is step one!

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/tools-for-collecting-yamadori.26385/

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/whats-in-your-yamadori-collecting-bag.27854/

Successfull collecting IMO is understanding that more often than not, you will bring NOTHING home.

For that reason, to be a successful collector..

You must ALWAYS be collecting.

So when the time comes to bring stuff home, actually dig, you are fully prepared.

Something bout how nice it is to have "auto-wet" on, while paddling back with a Juniper bungeed to the deck....

In these crumbling canyons, you will likely find the ones you can simply wiggle out with full roots.

I'd be on a mission to find ONE of those for this spring.

100% pumice. @RKatzin
@jriddell88 knows bout them river cliffs.
@wireme pays good attention collecting.

Sorce

 

[River's Edge]

Preparation is step one!

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/tools-for-collecting-yamadori.26385/

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/whats-in-your-yamadori-collecting-bag.27854/

Successfull collecting IMO is understanding that more often than not, you will bring NOTHING home.

For that reason, to be a successful collector..

You must ALWAYS be collecting.

So when the time comes to bring stuff home, actually dig, you are fully prepared.

Something bout how nice it is to have "auto-wet" on, while paddling back with a Juniper bungeed to the deck....

In these crumbling canyons, you will likely find the ones you can simply wiggle out with full roots.

I'd be on a mission to find ONE of those for this spring.

100% pumice. @RKatzin
@jriddell88 knows bout them river cliffs.
@wireme pays good attention collecting.

Sorce

Also check out Part II by Walter, it contains further insights to collecting. The subject is complex and requires experience to get it right. Preparation, attention to detail, basic skill set well established first. Knowledge of the particular species, the particular climate where collected, aftercare required.
I appreciate his willingness to tell it like it is.

 

[Arcto]

Please describe the actual site(s) where the target trees are growing. As in soil type, rock frequency, other trees, shrubs in proximity etc. While an overall approach to how you do it is important, you will find as you start working on an extraction that the plan will probably change. A big one is that the tree you hoped to get is not worth collecting due to the risk of failure. Logistics are another challenge. A tree that was an easy stroll in to discover can become a major effort to bring out with a sizable rootball and branches all over the place that you have to prevent further damage to.

 

[River's Edge]

Speaking of logistics. The hunter style backpack frame with a shelf is worth its weight in gold. Two good hiking poles for balance on the way back with weight is also a good idea. GPS for retracing a route in unfamiliar territory as one wanders from tree to tree. My best collecting areas are the most interesting terrain and definitely not in cell coverage. Rarely end up on the exact same path!
Enjoy the journey, be prepared for lots of empty handed return trips. Excellent Yamadori are few and far between when you gauge the form and ease of collectability. Take a friend, it is easy to turn an ankle or worse.

 

[Hannahmm]

@Arctothis the location I am looking around is the base (and as far up as possible) of the Steens mountains on private ranch property these areJuniperus occidentalis the Soil is Sandy and well draining LOTS of lava rock. The other plant species that grow are sage brush, Greesewood, wild rose, and a willow of some kind. All but the greesewood and sage primarily grow near water. We are talking harvesting 12"-18" trees here nothing overly large or special. Just there are a SUPER abundance of them... in fact the government pays people to cut them down by the hundreds for water conservation. @Riversedgebonsai I actually have a nice pack frame. I am an avid hunter and where I have thrown a small white tail over my shoulder and walked off a mule deer or elk is another story! Basically I am looking for small simple starter trees just to get the hang of it oh and fyi most the trees I am looking at are still half juvenile foliage or at the very least juvenile in the lowest shaded branches.

 

[River's Edge]

@Arctothis the location I am looking around is the base (and as far up as possible) of the Steens mountains on private ranch property these areJuniperus occidentalis the Soil is Sandy and well draining LOTS of lava rock. The other plant species that grow are sage brush, Greesewood, wild rose, and a willow of some kind. All but the greesewood and sage primarily grow near water. We are talking harvesting 12"-18" trees here nothing overly large or special. Just there are a SUPER abundance of them... in fact the government pays people to cut them down by the hundreds for water conservation. @Riversedgebonsai I actually have a nice pack frame. I am an avid hunter and where I have thrown a small white tail over my shoulder and walked off a mule deer or elk is another story! Basically I am looking for small simple starter trees just to get the hang of it oh and fyi most the trees I am looking at are still half juvenile foliage or at the very least juvenile in the lowest shaded branches.

Your terrain looks much easier to navigate then what i am used to. Have fun. Check out the cattle paths for damaged trees they can be interesting.

 

[Arcto]

The Steens are a really cool place. Hope to get back there sometime. You may get lucky and find a rock pocket tree. More likely you’ll be digging (hopefully) intact root balls from the sand. Soil has to be moist to have a chance of success. Once it dries out, it’s almost impossible to remove an intact rootball. Typically, I’ll explore at the base for large root runs near the surface. If it looks promising, I start trenching around the tree further out than the planned finished size and gradually cut my way in. Newly discovered big roots and rocks imbedded in the rootball can alter the plan as you go. Repeatedly hitting a large root or rock will result in destroying the rootball and you will have a bare root job on your hands with little chance of success. Wrapping a extracted rootball tightly with burlap, shrink wrap, or even carefully placing in a nursery can that will hold it have all worked for me. I have a 2” rule. If the surface is dry but I find moist soil within 2” of the surface, I’ll dig. Keep in mind with the merger snowpack this year, the collecting season will probably start and end early. Good luck.

 

[GGB]

Not a juniper guy, not really a yamadori guy either, when it comes to my personal collection. I like the control of starting them young. BUT the oldest tree I ever collected was a juniper it was at least 50 years old (if everything I've read is true) .. ha who knows. I had to hang off the side of a cliff to get her and I'm a little afraid of heights. Halfway through my shovel broke, I used my pruning shears to finish the job, it was growing in shale and I just wanted to live another day. Total mess, severed a 2.5" taproot but got some horizontals and feeders.
Later that day I felt a horrible guilt for certainly dooming such an old and determined tree. This was my last collection. BUT the tree never died, one year later I checked the roots and it had filled in all the gaps with fresh roots and I was on my way to a nearly perfect nebari on a collected tree. Juniper after care is everything "they" say. I believe it. Treat the thing like a cutting more or less. In my case it was a j. virginiana and they are fairly "weedy" but then again I think junipers are all kinda weedy really.
After care has been my strongest area of bonsai so far, everyone shines somewhere, balance of neglect and perfect conditions. But the moral is .. I did it with limited experience and came out with a great tree (which I sold this fall for an okay amount) but if you're not totally equipped it's best to leave it there for a year or two. You can always prune them roughly this spring and collect materials and knowledge in the meantime. I haven't collected since my experience (and may never again) and that tree survived haha. Just be careful, if you're really a tree guy deep down, and something goes wrong, it might bug you more than you think

 

[Vance Wood]

If you want to do this right the best thing you can do is find someone who does collecting on a regular basis. Collecting is one of those areas where reality, and what you imagine in your mind about the first time, are usually miles apart.

 

[JPM]

I would suggest starting with the juniper that somebody has planted in their yard!! Not all but most yard planted nursery stock has a decent root ball with a few large tap roots! If you try a few of those first and keep them alive you should understand junipers a bit better! Most junipers look alive for up to 3 to 4 months so it’s hard to tell if you’ve killed them their foliage stays green for a long time!! Harvester trees are kept in controlled environments and treated like babies they must be misted 3 to 4 times a day!!
as has already been stated they are fickle animals not good for the first timer that doesn’t know what they’re doing!! so learning on some thing that can be replaced and is not a wild specimen is probably your best course of action!!
Good luck stay safe and don’t kill things that don’t need to be killed!! But always remember it’s a learning process and if the tree dies make sure you learn something from it!! Happy digging!!