Fitty nine hundred...

[rockm]

Wow. Excuse me, Fifty nine THOUSAND....I don't think this tree is all that, even if it IS a hinoki:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Specimen-Bonsai...398?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a11913506

And no, it ain't the nicest hinoki outside of Japan.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

I just bought it. What a great specimen!.....pfffft.

Whoever sells those trees seems bipolar. Some of the bonsai stock seems okay and the prices don't seem too ridiculous, but other stuff is insane.

Am I crazy, or are these two links to the same tree at a different price? $100 and $150...or do they just look similar?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bonsai-Tree-Sho...239?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bbff508f
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bonsai-Tree-Sho...825?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bbda1b81

 

[radsnell]

Pretty sure the majority of the trees for sale from that seller are from Brussel's nursery, based on the photo backgrounds. I thought the big Hinoki looked familiar.

 

[stacy allen muse]

I think the worst part about the $59,000 dollar tree is that the "Insurance is the buyers responsiblity", don't even want to know what that would cost...
last time I was at UPS, the first $100 dollars was free, after that it was like a dollar or two for every hundred...
You would think if you just bought a tree for that much they would at least hand deliver it ???

 

[John Ruger]

Well, what the hell, at least they throw in free standard shipping.

 

[Vance Wood]

I think the worst part about the $59,000 dollar tree is that the "Insurance is the buyers responsiblity", don't even want to know what that would cost...
last time I was at UPS, the first $100 dollars was free, after that it was like a dollar or two for every hundred...
You would think if you just bought a tree for that much they would at least hand deliver it ???

If you can afford that kind of money for a tree that can be fussy to keep alive I think you could afford to have it shipped any way you want.

 

[KABUDACHI]

Bipolar is understating the condition. I tried to weigh in on the issue of unfair pricing of bonsai a couple of weeks ago and was shredded by others on this forum. One person even made a comment that a tree is worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it. Sure I can buy that but $59K for a bonsai in the united states. One must laugh at the ignorance. The sad thing is they keep listing it and listing it and listing it. What a joke. It is entertaining though.

 

[HotAction]

Ok, everyone quit getting your panties in a wad. This tree is NOT for sale. Now Thankgoodness that is cleared up. Figure it out from there.

 

[rockm]

The pricing isn't unfair, just kind of spectacular. I posted it because I've never seen a price like that on a tree like that. As mentioned, the seller may not be all that interested in selling it...

 

[stacy allen muse]

rockm I think you are totally correct, one can ask what ever they want for something, doesn't mean it's going to happen... That reminds me, I think I have a couple of those $59,000 dollar bonsai's I want to sell too.... with free shipping, and insurance...

 

[Fangorn]

rockm I think you are totally correct, one can ask what ever they want for something, doesn't mean it's going to happen... That reminds me, I think I have a couple of those $59,000 dollar bonsai's I want to sell too.... with free shipping, and insurance...

I was talking to a local on Block Island a while back and he told me that there were quite a overpriced houses for sale by on the island just waiting for that one person who can afford it.

 

[Bill S]

Bipolar is understating the condition. I tried to weigh in on the issue of unfair pricing of bonsai a couple of weeks ago and was shredded by others on this forum. One person even made a comment that a tree is worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it. Sure I can buy that but $59K for a bonsai in the united states. One must laugh at the ignorance. The sad thing is they keep listing it and listing it and listing it. What a joke. It is entertaining though.

What is unfair about someone OWNING something, and wanting to get a certain price to sell it, you can tell us all day, all month long that it isn't worth it, fine don't buy it, like I said before, there is an ass for every seat, it happens all around us everyday. If a person is willing to fork over the 59 large, then I guess to them it is woth it. At what stage who and what is the ignorance, for all you know I could grab this at a token 59k and sell it to some rich sob for an extra 15 20 30, who gets to make decisions as to who is ignorant, what are your qualifications?

Where are you from, because you seem to indicate that 59k might be ok in your country, but the US, were you trained by a nail thru the nose to the ceiling, or is it genuine conceit? European on the wrong bunch of ignorant people here. You are welcome here, but adjust dude, loosen the undershorts. We don't take well to being talked down to, don't care much who you are, unless you care to answer the qualification question, and show some.

HA if I walked in with fitty large in my hand, think I could have a chance, I do. Unless the guy if filthy rich money talks.

I have seen contractors make double what a job was worth because the market was busy, they didn't really want the job, but sometimes just bidding gets you invired to the next bid, so they just priced it at 3x the rule of thumb, the others were higher(probably same reason) so the company made a killing, based on the architechtural estimates(legitimate). There are resaosns so much silly money changes hands sometimes.

 

[catfish chapstick]

if you view bonsai as true Art then there is nothing wrong with the high price. artists do this all the time. i personally know artists that will price their best work ungodly high with no such intention to sell. idk why that would be the case with this tree and i agree that someone would have to be super-rich and super ignorant to consider the purchase but how can you really judge a trees worth? imho its not just how much someone is willing to pay. its also how much its worth to the seller as well. and art doesn't exactly have a standard scale.

maybe the price is a typo

 

[pwk5017]

if you view bonsai as true Art then there is nothing wrong with the high price. artists do this all the time. i personally know artists that will price their best work ungodly high with no such intention to sell. idk why that would be the case with this tree and i agree that someone would have to be super-rich and super ignorant to consider the purchase but how can you really judge a trees worth? imho its not just how much someone is willing to pay. its also how much its worth to the seller as well. and art doesn't exactly have a standard scale.

maybe the price is a typo

I never considered it before, because: 1] I havent considered selling my finished trees 2] Havent considered purchasing a finished tree. Im not so sure i agree with the "its worth what the buyer pays" malarky. Bonsai is a difficult subject to value, because EVERY piece is unique, but it can be done. Nearly every house is unique, but these properties are accurately appraised day in and day out. The appraisal process requires comparables. If I went out right now and found several hinoki's of the same age, same overall quality, same pot make and vintage etc. that were selling for $10k-$20k you would have a decent understanding of its market value. I think alot of people confuse the price of a good with its market value. If I grew up with a relative that grew hinoki bonsai and that relative and I were very close, but they recently passed away, I might be willing to pay more for a quality hinoki bonsai specimen. Dont think for a second that my purchase is the market value of the tree, because in my desperation to find one quickly I would most likely pay a price that was not the market value.

 

[catfish chapstick]

I never considered it before, because: 1] I havent considered selling my finished trees 2] Havent considered purchasing a finished tree. Im not so sure i agree with the "its worth what the buyer pays" malarky. Bonsai is a difficult subject to value, because EVERY piece is unique, but it can be done. Nearly every house is unique, but these properties are accurately appraised day in and day out. The appraisal process requires comparables. If I went out right now and found several hinoki's of the same age, same overall quality, same pot make and vintage etc. that were selling for $10k-$20k you would have a decent understanding of its market value. I think alot of people confuse the price of a good with its market value. If I grew up with a relative that grew hinoki bonsai and that relative and I were very close, but they recently passed away, I might be willing to pay more for a quality hinoki bonsai specimen. Dont think for a second that my purchase is the market value of the tree, because in my desperation to find one quickly I would most likely pay a price that was not the market value.

value itself is a tricky notion and not always easily measurable. i guess thats what i meant. i agree entirely tho.

 

[Bill S]

Need to make some distinctions, are we talking trees in general? Or just this tree?? I'll wait for answers before I go further.

 

[mcpesq817]

From a pure economics view, the "market price" of a good reflects what people in the marketplace will pay for the supply of the particular good. Sure, some people may assign a "value" to the item that is different from the market price, with some valuing it higher and some valuing it lower. Presumably, those who value it higher will think they are getting a bargain, while those who value it lower will think it is overpriced and will not purchase the item.

 

[John Ruger]

Well Bill S. you bring up an interesting point. I guess the same logic applies to the bonsai market in general. We've all seen collected material (not "finished" material mind you), etc. with price scatters from the hundreds to thousands. I've seen beatuifully trained material by respected artists for less than 1k. What's the point? Personally, and I understand that many will not see it this way, but I think that most of the bonsai material that I've seen is grossly overpriced, yet that's just my opinion and I imagine someone will pay the prices asked or the nursery goes out of business. And I also think that a lot of the materials I've seen is borderline overpriced garbage-take a 1/2 inch juniper, give it a couple twists of the trunk and slap a $300 tag on it.

 

[rockm]

"I never considered it before, because: 1] I havent considered selling my finished trees 2] Havent considered purchasing a finished tree. Im not so sure i agree with the "its worth what the buyer pays" malarky. Bonsai is a difficult subject to value, because EVERY piece is unique, but it can be done."

This is where the argument goes off the rails. Unique art is fine and all that, but commercially, bonsai are mostly commodities. They are certainly worth what the market will bear. Buyers of bonsai aren't rational. They are, after all, using their money to buy ephemeral "art" not something with established market value like gold or a house. You're confusing "worth" with "ability" and "motivation." The price paid certainly may not reflect the real value (it can, but doesn't necessarily have to). Whether it does or not, is largely up to the buyer.

 

[Vance Wood]

"I never considered it before, because: 1] I havent considered selling my finished trees 2] Havent considered purchasing a finished tree. Im not so sure i agree with the "its worth what the buyer pays" malarky. Bonsai is a difficult subject to value, because EVERY piece is unique, but it can be done."

This is where the argument goes off the rails. Unique art is fine and all that, but commercially, bonsai are mostly commodities. They are certainly worth what the market will bear. Buyers of bonsai aren't rational. They are, after all, using their money to buy ephemeral "art" not something with established market value like gold or a house. You're confusing "worth" with "ability" and "motivation." The price paid certainly may not reflect the real value (it can, but doesn't necessarily have to). Whether it does or not, is largely up to the buyer.

There-fore, and I hate to say it, a bonsai is worth what someone is willing to pay for it in the end, provided the current owner is willing to accept that amount. Bonsai are not valued in the same way a Rembrandt would be where its artistic value remains static unless it becomes damaged. Bonsai on the other hand can have significant inflation or deflation of value dependent upon care and maintenance and can change from year to year regardless of who originally styled the tree.

In the case of the Ebay tree it is claimed the tree is worth Fifty-Gs. I have no clue how that figure was arrived at understanding that there are no auction values of similar items to compare it with. As far as I can determine this figure is arbitrary on behalf of the current owner and can only be confirmed if and when a buyer comes along that is willing to pay that amount for it. If it sells for that amount then it can truly be said the tree (at this moment in time) is worth Fifty-G's. The only possible exception for this rule would be if an insurance company would be willing to insure the tree for that amount.