fixin to use me sum dirt clods

[Townes Van Tortoise]

So since I started using 1/4 to 1/3 akadama I have noticed marked improvement in the health of many trees, and in the ease of keeping them so. I began to ponder the qualities that make it the way it is, and why it makes good substrate ingredient.

I decided it was the fact the texture and size is similar to pumice but it gives the tree access to those nutrient retaining clay particles.

I can't help thinking of somethkng that was one of my favorite toys/munitions as a child (and maybe beyond): dirt clods. I've thrown countless of them, and can distinctly remember some that were small and almost as hard as rocks. I remember tossing them into this glass jar from a little distance, and them not breaking at all. I wonder if there are commonly clods that are comparable in hardness to akadama, or could they be fired. I think it will be something that I'm going to watch out for.

Has anyone tried anything like this, or considered it

 

[Tieball]

Well...that’s a new one to me. Dirt Clods.
Or....maybe I just wasn’t paying much attention some time ago.

 

[Woocash]

Well...that’s a new one to me. Dirt Clods.
Or....maybe I just wasn’t paying much attention some time ago.

I think that’s the technical term you know.
@Townes Van Tortoise makes a good point though. Isn’t that pretty much what Akadama et al is? Fired dirt clods, or clay clods. You gots to gets searching for a decent clod spot and get diggin’, rollin’ and bakin’ I reckon. There can’t be just one fabled place for the holy grail of bonsai soil in the world.

 

[sorce]

HAVE YOU, wanted to try Cali-Dama?

Glenn is selling on ebay, Large flat rate box. Thats a picture of Glenn in the beard at the head of his new sifting machine I posted here a while back. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CALIDAMA-BONSAI-SOIL-/111405785510?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f04d61a6

www.bonsainut.com

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

HAVE YOU, wanted to try Cali-Dama?

Glenn is selling on ebay, Large flat rate box. Thats a picture of Glenn in the beard at the head of his new sifting machine I posted here a while back. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CALIDAMA-BONSAI-SOIL-/111405785510?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f04d61a6

www.bonsainut.com

Sorce

Cali Dama is very different. It doesn’t break down unless physically crushed.

Akadama does break down over time.

I believe Calidama is a substitute for lava (scoria) in a bonsai mix, not akadama.

 

[PABonsai]

Fired dirt clods? Is that not just calcined clay? (Turface)

 

[GGB]

totally played with hundreds to thousands of dirt clods, called em that too. But it would be a cold day in hell that I "mined" my own and waited two years to see how they held up. Of course... you're on the west coast so maybe the soil is totally different

 

[Townes Van Tortoise]

HAVE YOU, wanted to try Cali-Dama?

Glenn is selling on ebay, Large flat rate box. Thats a picture of Glenn in the beard at the head of his new sifting machine I posted here a while back. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CALIDAMA-BONSAI-SOIL-/111405785510?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f04d61a6

www.bonsainut.com

Sorce

The link didn't work for me, but I will try to find info online, as I haven't ever heard of calidama

 

[Mike Westervelt]

I think that’s the technical term you know.
@Townes Van Tortoise makes a good point though. Isn’t that pretty much what Akadama et al is? Fired dirt clods, or clay clods. You gots to gets searching for a decent clod spot and get diggin’, rollin’ and bakin’ I reckon. There can’t be just one fabled place for the holy grail of bonsai soil in the world.

Apparently according to some BSOP members there are places in the Cascade Mtns that do in fact have very similar clay.
The issue is there is not enough demand here in the US to make it economically feasible to extract and process

 

[Mike Westervelt]

So since I started using 1/4 to 1/3 akadama I have noticed marked improvement in the health of many trees, and in the ease of keeping them so. I began to ponder the qualities that make it the way it is, and why it makes good substrate ingredient.

I decided it was the fact the texture and size is similar to pumice but it gives the tree access to those nutrient retaining clay particles.

I can't help thinking of somethkng that was one of my favorite toys/munitions as a child (and maybe beyond): dirt clods. I've thrown countless of them, and can distinctly remember some that were small and almost as hard as rocks. I remember tossing them into this glass jar from a little distance, and them not breaking at all. I wonder if there are commonly clods that are comparable in hardness to akadama, or could they be fired. I think it will be something that I'm going to watch out for.

Has anyone tried anything like this, or considered it

I did try it 30+ years ago, our property had this really sticky red clay, with sticky yellow underneath.
Dried it in the hot sun and forced it through a screen, looked great! seemed hard like you described, but then...............
Put into soil mix, potted a few trees, first few waterings were ok, soon as it rained any significant amount(which it does here, a lot) turned to mush, then dried into a solid mass.
Disclaimer, I did not bake it, pretty sure my wife would have objected to that

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

When they suggested baking clay, or dirt clods, to make them like calcined clay, the temperature required is around 900 F give or take, a but warmer than you could normally achieve in the home kitchen.

 

[Townes Van Tortoise]

The link didn't work for me, but I will try to find info online, as I haven't ever heard of calidama

And thank you btw

 

[TN_Jim]

Dirt clod fights as a young fella, lord of the flies.

 

[Townes Van Tortoise]

I did try it 30+ years ago, our property had this really sticky red clay, with sticky yellow underneath.
Dried it in the hot sun and forced it through a screen, looked great! seemed hard like you described, but then...............
Put into soil mix, potted a few trees, first few waterings were ok, soon as it rained any significant amount(which it does here, a lot) turned to mush, then dried into a solid mass.
Disclaimer, I did not bake it, pretty sure my wife would have objected to that

Bummer. Yeah I could imagine, as you described, that they might stay together for some time, but probably not the entire time between repottings. So akadama breaks up, does it just break into smaller "rocks" or does it become a mush that spreads throughout you whole pot. (Not being sarcastic, really asking)

Also, I have experienced something similar to the solid mass you mentioned. It was when I had read that when you collect trees that you should use soil from the hole to help ease the transition. So I used my mostly pumice mixture I use on most yamadori, but with about 1/4 volume of the clay soil the tree was grown in
Afterward a few days I'm pretty sure you could have built a nice Adobe hut with my soil. Only tree that died that year out of about 10-15 collectdd

 

[MrWunderful]

Bummer. Yeah I could imagine, as you described, that they might stay together for some time, but probably not the entire time between repottings. So akadama breaks up, does it just break into smaller "rocks" or does it become a mush that spreads throughout you whole pot. (Not being sarcastic, really asking)

Also, I have experienced something similar to the solid mass you mentioned. It was when I had read that when you collect trees that you should use soil from the hole to help ease the transition. So I used my mostly pumice mixture I use on most yamadori, but with about 1/4 volume of the clay soil the tree was grown in
Afterward a few days I'm pretty sure you could have built a nice Adobe hut with my soil. Only tree that died that year out of about 10-15 collectdd

The akadama ive used breaks into smaller pieces, before eventually turning to mud (I repot well before that) but I live in an area that doesnt get much rain, but A ton of fog. I assume it would be 5+ years before it broke down to mush.

Ive spoken to a bonsai “professional” that lived in a very wet area of the sf bay area (santa cruz mountains) whose akadama turned to mush after 70” of rain -or so he claimed.

Bought an acer ginnala from him that has zero akadama, just pumice, lava spagnum and a bit of charcoal. Im worried it wont have enough water holding for me so I might replace the first inch or so with pure akadama.