Flowering Pear 'Cleaveland Pear'

[RichKid]

Was at my local Walmart, and they have the Flowering Pear Cleveland cultivar left over from last summer I suppose. Normally sold.for $40 on sale for $10. It's about 7-8' from the soil. The top has decent ramification. Do they have any value as bonsai? I've seen a Bradford Pear bonsai before. Do they air layer well? Aol they bavkbud after a trunk chop? Buy or no? They also have Flowering Dogwood. All the same circumstances. Same questions apply. Thanks in advance.

 

[rockm]

Bradford Pear at the National Arboretum

 

[bonhe]

Was at my local Walmart, and they have the Flowering Pear Cleveland cultivar left over from last summer I suppose. Normally sold.for $40 on sale for $10. It's about 7-8' from the soil. The top has decent ramification. Do they have any value as bonsai? I've seen a Bradford Pear bonsai before. Do they air layer well?
If I was you, I'll get it! You can do air layer for it. I recently got an excellent flowering pear prebonsai which was from the air layering.
Bonhe

 

[RichKid]

Bradford Pear at the National Arboretum

I've seen a few of those, and I always liked how they've looked. Which is why my interest was sparked. I just wasn't sure if this was the same thing. You know places like Walmart make up their own names for tree tags sometimes lol. So I just had to make sure this was indeed what I was dealing with and that it could be used.

 

[dick benbow]

my vote is with Bonhe

There's an old pear in the weyerhauser collection and the bark is incredible. the national
picture posted here should encourage you to get it.....

 

[RichKid]

Was at my local Walmart, and they have the Flowering Pear Cleveland cultivar left over from last summer I suppose. Normally sold.for $40 on sale for $10. It's about 7-8' from the soil. The top has decent ramification. Do they have any value as bonsai? I've seen a Bradford Pear bonsai before. Do they air layer well?
If I was you, I'll get it! You can do air layer for it. I recently got an excellent flowering pear prebonsai which was from the air layering.
Bonhe

I think I'm going to go today! Maybe I'll get both and just see what happens with them!

 

[coh]

That's a nice tree at the national arboretum. I think Jim Lewis has also posted a nice pear (perhaps at IBC), though I don't know what variety. I think 'Cleveland Select' is very similar to 'Bradford'.

I picked up a pear a couple of years ago. Not sure the variety but it apparently was collected from a hedgerow, could be a cross between bradford and something else. It has really nice bark and a large base (see below) but the overall tree is weak (previous owner neglected it a bit). I have to do some root work this spring.



I've seen nice photos of Kousa dogwood, but don't think I've seen any bonsai done with the American dogwood.

Chris

 

[coppice]

Pear back budded for me pretty good if I left a terminal bud to leaf out.

Love the autumn color.

Give pear a try!

 

[RichKid]

Pear back budded for me pretty good if I left a terminal bud to leaf out.

Love the autumn color.

Give pear a try!

So what if I wanted to trunk chop? I don't recall any buds or branches lower than at least four feet on the tree. I figure I could air layer the top in sections, and finally chop the trunk. Any thoughts?

 

[rockm]

don't bother with the air layer. The sized tree you're working on probably isn't worth the effort. Unless a tree has something worthwhile, like an upper trunk with interesting movement, bark, it's not worth it.

Trunk chop away. You'll get new shoots below the cut with no problem. Existing branching on deciduous landscape trees we use for bonsai is pretty much always elminiated and a new branch structure grown from scratch i.e. bare trunk.

Pears are pretty much indestructible. They grow like weeds around here and I would be hesitant to actually buy one. There are so many around in vacant lots, the woods and such that collecting a really good trunk with thick bark and some heft isn't really a problem. I've been looking for one over the years, but I'm spoiled for choice. Haven't gotten around to collecting one yet.

 

[bonhe]

. I figure I could air layer the top in sections, and finally chop the trunk. Any thoughts?

I agree with you. By this way, you will get 2 trees in the future.
If you just chop the top off, you will have only one!
Bonhe

 

[coh]

So what if I wanted to trunk chop? I don't recall any buds or branches lower than at least four feet on the tree. I figure I could air layer the top in sections, and finally chop the trunk. Any thoughts?

Based on what I've seen in nurseries and garden centers, these trees will probably have very conspicuous grafts on the lower trunks, which will make them difficult for bonsai.

 

[rockm]

"By this way, you will get 2 trees in the future.
If you just chop the top off, you will have only one!"

This is the absolute worst reason for air layering. Yeah, you may get two trees, but at least one one of them is probably going to be poor to low end mediocre bonsai material for decades. You will waste time and effort on it before you realize it. This is a big beginner mistake. You halve your attention when you double up. When you double up on bad material, you waste half your time...

All this, of course, counts on a successful air layer...You COULD get two trees, but you could also waste three months for a dead top and an unworked lower trunk...

 

[bonhe]

"By this way, you will get 2 trees in the future.
If you just chop the top off, you will have only one!"

This is the absolute worst reason for air layering. Yeah, you may get two trees, but at least one one of them is probably going to be poor to low end mediocre bonsai material for decades. You will waste time and effort on it before you realize it. This is a big beginner mistake. You halve your attention when you double up. When you double up on bad material, you waste half your time...

All this, of course, counts on a successful air layer...You COULD get two trees, but you could also waste three months for a dead top and an unworked lower trunk...

How about if you chop the top and you have unworked lower trunk? same thing! That's why I prefer the air layering! I hate to chop off the branch or trunk if I have good reason to save it for another project! My sensei said" "no tree is not worth for bonsai if you know how to approach it!"
Bonhe

 

[rockm]

"How about if you chop the top and you have unworked lower trunk? same thing!"

My point was you lose at least half a growing season on the lower trunk waiting for the air layer to take. In that time, you could be cultivating a new set of lower branches, sort out the nebari, roots, etc. You can't do ANY of that while the air layer is in progress and given the couple of months (or more) that it takes to get the air layer, the season for work on the lower half has passed. All that for what? a piddly probably straight piece of stock that you will waste resources on before realizing it's not worth the trouble.

Concentrate on the piece of material that's worthwhile, NOT on simply getting another "free" tree. Free is mostly worth what you paid for it...

"My sensei said" "no tree is not worth for bonsai if you know how to approach it!"

Well, OK, we'll assume that every tree has potential...(which isn't true, or at least a very subjective opinion that leads to some very bland bonsai). The approach to an air layer of a mostly featureless, uninteresting sapling will mean about ten years of just letting it alone--all for what will most likely become a featureless uninteresting bonsai...A growing bed full of saplings is not bonsai, it is farming. You have to learn to pick your fight...

 

[bonhe]

My point was you lose at least half a growing season on the lower trunk waiting for the air layer to take. In that time, you could be cultivating a new set of lower branches, sort out the nebari, roots, etc. You can't do ANY of that while the air layer is in progress and given the couple of months (or more) that it takes to get the air layer, the season for work on the lower half has passed.
I understand. However, if we count the time by 10 -20 years or more to get the good looking bonsai, losing one year is nothing!
Bonhe

 

[coh]

I don't think losing the one year is a big deal either...but, that's if the top is truly worth it. In this case, we don't know. Maybe the original poster has a photo to show us.

If the top is only so-so, then the whole process probably isn't worth the effort. As I said earlier, pretty much all of these kinds of trees that I've seen are grafted, and usually the grafts are pretty obvious...and high enough to be problematic. So you probably won't be able to make use of whatever base/nebari exists, unless you're willing to gamble on the characteristics of the understock.

Chris

 

[RichKid]

Well the tree is not grafted. Sorry no photo. The top is mostly straight, but very ramified. I only thought maybe it would be worth it to have the tree with secondary and tertiary branches, at the least, and try to do some sort of an upright maybe? But like Rock said, maybe this is a beginner mistake, as I am most definitely a super beginner! Its not really about getting a free tree to me because its only ten bucks. I've paid more for trees and shrubs. Heck, I've paid more most of the fish in my aquariums! I just want material to learn on and not have to worry about totally ruining anything nice. So I can say practice pruning, chopping, healing scars, etc and know what expect. I don't want to have to beg you guys for advice forever!

 

[coh]

Did you dig around the base of the tree to see what's under the soil? Often these nursery trees have several inches of soil above whatever nebari (usually not much) exists. If it's not grafted (or it's a good graft) and there is evidence of good rootage/nebari, I'd say give it a shot. $10 ain't so much, at worst it becomes a yard tree...

Chris

 

[RichKid]

Did you dig around the base of the tree to see what's under the soil? Often these nursery trees have several inches of soil above whatever nebari (usually not much) exists. If it's not grafted (or it's a good graft) and there is evidence of good rootage/nebari, I'd say give it a shot. $10 ain't so much, at worst it becomes a yard tree...

Chris

No, I didn't dig around, but honestly, as many pears as I have worked on I have never seen one with a graft. Not the fruiting pear, but Bradford Pear, the ones that are used by cities in urban landscaping. There is actually one in front of my house. But it's not the white flowering kind and its so I would have to climb way up in it to find anything worth layering, not to mention not sure if I'm allowed to do that. LOL