Flowering Pear 'Cleaveland Pear'

bonhe

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rockm;12969
Free is mostly worth what you paid for it...

Is it true? I don't think so! I can attest my statement but not in this thread!

"My sensei said" "no tree is not worth for bonsai if you know how to approach it!"

Well, OK, we'll assume that every tree has potential...(which isn't true, or at least a very subjective opinion that leads to some very bland bonsai). The approach to an air layer of a mostly featureless, uninteresting sapling will mean about ten years of just letting it alone--all for what will most likely become a featureless uninteresting bonsai...A growing bed full of saplings is not bonsai, it is farming. You have to learn to pick your fight...

Well, no comment!
Bonhe
 

Poink88

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"My sensei said" "no tree is not worth for bonsai if you know how to approach it!"

Well, OK, we'll assume that every tree has potential...(which isn't true, or at least a very subjective opinion that leads to some very bland bonsai). The approach to an air layer of a mostly featureless, uninteresting sapling will mean about ten years of just letting it alone--all for what will most likely become a featureless uninteresting bonsai...A growing bed full of saplings is not bonsai, it is farming. You have to learn to pick your fight...

rockm,

I happen to agree with his sensei 100%. I know some will need more effort than others and I too won't work on everything just because I do not want to spend too much effort on a tree (in short not worth the effort) but they all have potential.

It doesn't have to be a fight as well...there is room for all ideas or opinions...whether you agree with them or not.

No one saw the tree other than the OP but you are assuming the top is worthless. You could be right OR mistaken.
 

rockm

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"I happen to agree with his sensei 100%. I know some will need more effort than others and I too won't work on everything just because I do not want to spend too much effort on a tree (in short not worth the effort) but they all have potential.

It doesn't have to be a fight as well...there is room for all ideas or opinions...whether you agree with them or not."

Good lord, or course it's an opinion. But c'mon, I've been doing this for about 20 years. No, not all trees have potential, at least potential worth working on. Believing this leads to having 450 trees in your backyard and no trees that are going to amount to much.

Some trees need A LOT more effort and time and resources, some simply aren't worth. You will wind up giving those trees away, or selling them to somone who also thinks "that all trees have potential" which will lead to THEM selling them and so on.

What I'm saying is, a little selectivity up front can lead to more satisfaction down the road. Disagree?
 

Poink88

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What I'm saying is, a little selectivity up front can lead to more satisfaction down the road. Disagree?

I wholeheartedly agree but I maintain every one of them have potential. It is up to the owner to see it and make it happen. The 450 "trash" trees can be all gems of a bonsai in the hand of someone who knows what he/she is doing...given lots of work and time.

BTW, I think we all try to get the best material we can so that goes w/o saying. I bought several of those "reject" trees myself...being the only ones I can find that I can afford. I concentrate on its "potential" and see what it could be or what I can use. We will see in a few years if I have enough foresight/knowledge/skill to push them towards the right direction. ;)
 

mcpesq817

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Every tree does not have "potential." I remember hearing someone say something to the effect that you're lucky if you get a good bonsai from one out of a hundred plants. If you have the space and time, sure, it's fine to practice on plants without potential. Otherwise, you're just devoting time and resources to material that could be better spent elsewhere.
 
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I was going through my t-shirt "collection" last night, getting rid of some old ones because my drawers are overflowing. It is not a direct parallel for the process of weeding out unworthy bonsai stock because t-shirts get worse with age and bonsai get better (for the most part.) But I think the decision process is similar, and in both cases I need to get rid of more then just a couple old dogs, and in both cases I have developed irrational emotional attachments to some as well.
At some point there is a limit to how many trees you want to or can keep up with. The limit has to do with growing space, maintenance time and many other factors I'm sure. This limit is very personal for everyone and can change from year to year.
Personally, my growing space in flux because one of my neighbors complained and now we are not allowed to have potted plants in the courtyard. Maybe if I had been more selective and restrained in the first place, the neighbor would not have complained, but probably not, she is a total (*personally biased derogatory). Fortunately the landscape committee has allowed me a garden box on the backside of our building, which could be a backhanded blessing since nearly all of my material could use some years in the ground to develop their potential. However, the growing bed is in a semi public area. I am afraid to draw to much attention to them and think that a potted plant may "walk off" or just get messed with by some neighborhood kids or drunks. I've compensated for this by taking a few plants to my sister's place and by enhancing my indoor growing conditions, but this spring I am going to have lot of thinking and reorganizing to do. I probably do need to get rid of some. Also a few of the potted ones at my sisters I really like and am thinking I should bring them back and put them in the ground where I can care of them. Additionally even some of my "indoor" material which is doing pretty well indoors, could really stand to benefit from a summer outside.
As far as potential though. I do appreciate and heed the advice of the more experienced who say not to waste time with inferior material, however, the more experienced should remember that not everyone is at the same stage in their bonsaism. Although I could have skipped a few years by starting with better stock, it sure would have hurt more to learn my horticultural lessons of mortality on nice trees. I also enjoy the challange of turning something that is not considered good material into something beautiful, even if it might take me many years, or even if it takes many years and then fails to attain my goal anyways. This spring I am sure I will keeping you updated with some of my terrible experiments. I have a prunus in mind that was a bunch of volunteers twisted together and left to the escape method. I remember Jim telling me not to, but now they have fused, but the bark and leafing characteristics are different from the volunteers and it is really ugly. It might not make the cut this spring.

Thanks,
David
 

berobinson82

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Jeez, this forum has a one track mind right now.

Soup up your civic or buy the BMW. Sure, your civic could beat my BMW (I drive a Jeep) after you add a turbo charger and headers and an intake and exhaust and and and... but is the civic worth it to you? It's a civic!

Side one: I like working on civics and can't afford a BMW
Side two: I used to soup up civics then I amassed enough driving experience to take care of my BMW

We're still on the same highway. Let's get back to driving and stop trying to run each other off the road.
 
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I actually got confused and thought I was replying to one of the threads specifically related to debating potential, so sorry for going off topic.

Definitely give the pear a shot is my advice. Airlayering is a valuable skill to have.
 

rockm

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but is the civic worth it to you? It's a civic!

Ha! yeah, but it's got a baaaaad lookin spoiler nailed on the back.
 

RichKid

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I guess I should state that I decided against the pair. Upon a second trip to the store, i decided the potential just wasnt there
 
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