for all of us DE fans......

milehigh_7

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I was also curious about the difference between turface, and DE. I thought they were a very similar product, but he mentioned DE being porous. I have used optisorb, and it didn't strike me as porous at all.

Look at the table I posted. Optisorb is where that data came from. It is amazingly porous. Turface is very high fired flat chips of ceramic clay. It is vitrious for the most part.
 

wrcmad

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This is true. I "heard" that.

I guess maybe we're mincing words a little bit. While he's testing DE in the hopes that at some point it may be a replacement for AK at no point does he say definitively that once his AK supply is exhausted that he will be switching 100% of his trees over to just DE.

It's my impression listening to Ryan talk about AK and DE that while DE may be a good replacement for AK it still is not as good as AK. I think Ryan will be using AK as long as he possibly can. I don't think AK is going to disappear from the market any time soon.
I have been using DE for years here in Oz (called "diatomite"), as it has been near impossible to source Akadama, and diatomite is relatively cheap (we have a couple of mines here). It is porous, and has good cationic exchange properties like akadama, and also retains water like akadama. However, it doesn't break down like akadama will, over time. Over the years, I have found a mix of diatomite, pumice and small decomposed pine-bark nuggets are a really good substrate for all my trees.

Interestingly, last year I managed to source some hard akadama for the first time, so was able to trial a comparison of my own DE/pumice/pine-bark mix, vs a mix of pumice and akadama using JBP as the guinea pigs. Results: no noticeable difference in health or vigour. It will be interesting in spring to compare the characteristics of the root balls, mycorrihiza etc.
 

Gary McCarthy

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One other product Ryan mentioned in his stream that was similar to DE and available in Canada was CHABUZAI. I couldn't find anything on it doing a Google search. Any Canadians here that can give us some info?
 

Wilson

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Look at the table I posted. Optisorb is where that data came from. It is amazingly porous. Turface is very high fired flat chips of ceramic clay. It is vitrious for the most part.
I take your word for it, I was just going on my naked eye. I am definitely going to use it again. I spent some time yesterday reading more about it, sounds promising!
 

Wilson

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One other product Ryan mentioned in his stream that was similar to DE and available in Canada was CHABUZAI. I couldn't find anything on it doing a Google search. Any Canadians here that can give us some info?
It is great stuff! It looks like pumice, very porous and light. Through the bonsai society it costs about $1 a lìtre. I get chabasai and haydite from the society, add a little bark sometimes. I have used optisorb, but I find the size pretty small. Optisorb is $15.99 for around 22.5L, so I have stuck with chabasai and haydite. I will give optisorb another look this year, lots of repotting coming.20180128_093110.png20180128_093047.png
 

parhamr

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One thing he mentioned was a similar Akadama like clay around Mt. Hood. Anyone want to start up a mining business? Would be nice to get our own supply of it here in the states. :)
At the risk of this devolving into its own side argument, I’d like to make it clear this will never happen. The mountain is largely protected land and the various conservation and environmental groups will very likely succeed in blocking any mining.
 

Gary McCarthy

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It is great stuff! It looks like pumice, very porous and light. Through the bonsai society it costs about $1 a lìtre. I get chabasai and haydite from the society, add a little bark sometimes. I have used optisorb, but I find the size pretty small. Optisorb is $15.99 for around 22.5L, so I have stuck with chabasai and haydite. I will give optisorb another look this year, lots of repotting coming.View attachment 175674View attachment 175675
Looks like Ryan spelled chabasai incorrectly on the stream. No wonder I couldn't find any info on it :)

Thanks Wilson.
 

GGB

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@ptrickc watch the video around minute 34 and read all the comments and you'll know everything you need to know for now
 

milehigh_7

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I’ve been using DE for 4 growing seasons and have not seen any roots growing into and/or through the particles.

Here’s an Acer Macrophyllum grown in 1:1:1 (pumice, scoria, DE) in a grow bag
View attachment 175685View attachment 175686

Right, and I am not sure but if that is truly important than Akadama has that over DE. It's at that point where I am totally ignorant. I need to do more research. Back when I started in bonsai, they would say that sharp particles would cause the root division. Later that was shown to be false. If we have someone that is a bit more of a plant physiologist that can help us understand the science behind root division it would be great.

I hear what Ryan said, and it made anecdotal sense to me. I would just like to read some kind of journal article or something.
 
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milehigh_7

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I would really like to see Akadama under an electron microscope. I don't have access to one anymore. Here is a pic of DE from EP's website. Small tubes but tubes...

Diatomaceous_Earth_DE_SEM-600x450.jpg
 
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